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Domestic Violence: Do women 'make' men hit them?


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#1 Toyin

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:40 PM

Veteran actor Dennis Waterman has admitted slapping and punching his ex-wife Rula Lenska – and claimed it was 'not difficult for a woman to make a man hit her'.
The 64-year-old former Minder star said that because Miss Lenska was a 'strong, intelligent' woman who could argue, he resorted to 'lashing out' to stop her.
Speaking about their marriage of 11 years, he confessed he had slapped and punched her twice, but added: 'She certainly wasn't a beaten wife, she was hit and that's different.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1psrPLdzc



This is one of those taboo topics that we often hate talking about, but how many men deep down agree with this statement made by Waterman?




Do feisty women need a thump to put them back in their place. Do they make men do it?




What about sistas, do you agree? Are there women who deliberately goad their men into hitting them as a means of proving their 'love', I mean a man wouldn't respond so 'passionately' if deep down he didn't care - right?



#2 Twang

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 10:27 PM


This is one of those taboo topics that we often hate talking about, but how many men deep down agree with this statement made by Waterman?




Do feisty women need a thump to put them back in their place. Do they make men do it?




What about sistas, do you agree? Are there women who deliberately goad their men into hitting them as a means of proving their 'love', I mean a man wouldn't respond so 'passionately' if deep down he didn't care - right?




There is definitely something to be said about a certain type of woman that goads there man in for a good beating... the sort of woman that always complain about every single man they've ever dated has put there hands on them one has to ask why? I think this is just more than a coincidence...

#3 Toyin

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:18 PM

@ Twang

There is definitely something to be said about a certain type of woman that goads there man in for a good beating... the sort of woman that always complain about every single man they've ever dated has put there hands on them one has to ask why? I think this is just more than a coincidence...


If you believe its more than a coincidence are you really saying that the woman is to blame?

That most men are incapable of controlling their violent actions where women are concerned?

Waterman said that "Miss Lenska was a 'strong, intelligent' woman who could argue, he resorted to 'lashing out' to stop her."

As a man I can understand the impulse he is referring to but does this justify hitting her to shut her up instead of using words or silence?

#4 Diasporan Dawta

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:15 AM

No woman "makes" a man hit her anymore than any man "makes" a woman hit him." Sadly, I really "have" heard some sisters talk about that a man really cares about them, he'd have to knock 'em upside da head every now and again to prove his passion. (I'd probably be in prison for returning the passion... No, no though, life is much more than this kind of way of living.)

Waterman seems to be reacting more to his feelings of inadequacy than her strength, intelligence, and arguing ability. So did she stop chat after the first time he hit her? If she started going on at another date, was Waterman to assume that he didn't hit her hard enough the first time? Why would he remain with a woman who is too chatty for him, choosing to beat her instead of choosing to leave the relationship? I tend to believe that even if she were weak and quiet, he would still find a reason to hit her, because some people just seem to feel incomplete unless they are abusing their spouses physically or otherwise.

At any rate, hopefully she'll use that strength and intelligence to check the levels and leave a psychologically, emotionally, and possibly physically damaging relationship. That's not love. That's a sick monster that is being fedand is growing bigger everytime that she allows the abuse to take place.

#5 Toyin

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:01 PM

No woman "makes" a man hit her anymore than any man "makes" a woman hit him." Sadly, I really "have" heard some sisters talk about that a man really cares about them, he'd have to knock 'em upside da head every now and again to prove his passion. (I'd probably be in prison for returning the passion... No, no though, life is much more than this kind of way of living.)

Sadly some victims of domestic abuse create 'justifications' to excuse the bad behaviour from fear, shame sometimes both. My issue is do we as a community challenge such behaviour in men if we become aware it is happening or do we accept it as a 'feature' when a brotha is dealing with a intelligent sista?

Why would he remain with a woman who is too chatty for him, choosing to beat her instead of choosing to leave the relationship? I tend to believe that even if she were weak and quiet, he would still find a reason to hit her, because some people just seem to feel incomplete unless they are abusing their spouses physically or otherwise.

Im not sure the issue is her being too chatty, i think its more her being smarter, 'uncontrollable' and him feeling less of a man for it. In many relationships it is the woman that controls the employment, finances, schooling and domestic issues. He may bring home the money (and sometimes not even that) but I know of several brothas who feel they would be lost and unable to survive or better yet function socially without their woman. His abuse is a reflection of his inadequacy, his failings, his need to be master at home, especially if he is enslaved outside on the plantation. His weak mind turns her into the enemy for showing 'disobedience' when in Truth it is he whose failures not only diminishes him but also means he is dragging his pathetic issues with lack of self control into the home.

And yet, I know of women that use verbal assaults to encourage a physical response from their man when in an argument. Is this not a dangerous tactic if the man is not mature enough to know how to walk away?

At any rate, hopefully she'll use that strength and intelligence to check the levels and leave a psychologically, emotionally, and possibly physically damaging relationship. That's not love. That's a sick monster that is being fedand is growing bigger everytime that she allows the abuse to take place.

Thankfully they divorced up years ago. The new shook issue is that it took him so long to finally admit what he was doing.

#6 Toyin

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:49 PM

Chris Brown looks set for No 1 in comeback without contrition

Three years after assault on Rihanna, singer's notoriety appears to boost his career

Friday 6 July 2012

Posted Image

Three years ago, one key question swirled around R&B star Chris Brown: could his career survive? He had just pleaded guilty to felony assault, and was soon to be sentenced to five years' probation and six months' community labour for a brutal attack on his then girlfriend, Rihanna.

The assault occurred the night before the music industry's biggest event of the year, the Grammys; it involved one of the world's biggest stars; and it had been documented in a police photograph which soon began circulating online.

It was also the subject of a police report, which described in extensive detail how Rihanna's head had been shoved against a car window, her face and body punched, her left ear and fingers bitten, and pressure applied to her carotid arteries until she began to lose consciousness.

Brown was still a teenager, a clean-cut star who had dueted with an American Idol winner and made a guest appearance on a Disney TV show. The jury was out on his future.

Three years later the verdict is in. Brown's fifth album, Fortune, was released in the UK this week, and despite poor reviews is expected to reach No 1 on Sunday. The album's first single, Turn Up the Music, released this year, was his first to reach the top of the UK charts.

Full article: http://www.guardian....hout-contrition


I have one question... why?

Why would women flock to buy this guys music after his history of abusive behaviour?

Posted Image

Why do our Dj's and presenters still play his music - do they have no moral integrity?

If the woman he had beaten up was Cheryl Cole do you think that Radio One or music mags around the western world would still have supported him?

His twitter response to critics when winning his grammy was;

"HATE ALL U WANT BECUZ I GOT A GRAMMY Now! That's the ultimate F*ck OFF!"


Posted Image

Was does our excusing his behaviour teach our boys, that bad behaviour is 'cool'?



What messages does it transmit to our girls, that it is their 'duty' to accept our violence and lack of discipline as they become women???

#7 Diasporan Dawta

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:35 PM

Sadly some victims of domestic abuse create 'justifications' to excuse the bad behaviour from fear, shame sometimes both. My issue is do we as a community challenge such behaviour in men if we become aware it is happening or do we accept it as a 'feature' when a brotha is dealing with a intelligent sista?


Im not sure the issue is her being too chatty, i think its more her being smarter, 'uncontrollable' and him feeling less of a man for it. In many relationships it is the woman that controls the employment, finances, schooling and domestic issues. He may bring home the money (and sometimes not even that) but I know of several brothas who feel they would be lost and unable to survive or better yet function socially without their woman. His abuse is a reflection of his inadequacy, his failings, his need to be master at home, especially if he is enslaved outside on the plantation. His weak mind turns her into the enemy for showing 'disobedience' when in Truth it is he whose failures not only diminishes him but also means he is dragging his pathetic issues with lack of self control into the home.

And yet, I know of women that use verbal assaults to encourage a physical response from their man when in an argument. Is this not a dangerous tactic if the man is not mature enough to know how to walk away?


Thankfully they divorced up years ago. The new shook issue is that it took him so long to finally admit what he was doing.


That's something. This guy had to have had a good idea about her intelligence before they entered a serious relationship. I mean I know he couldn't have woken up one day like, "Dang; this woman is too intelligent for my tastes!"

It seems as though for a guy such as this, intelligence attracts him yet that he is threatened by the very thing that he is attracted to. Equally and attracted to and threatened by something. That type of conflict is just way too much; why it's enough to make somebody get slapped!

I wonder though if this guy has a daughter and if so, I suspect that he doesn't want any guy hitting on her.

On the Chris Brown thing, I'll first say that the backlash was so popular in the Media primarily because he was black. His career was in real jeopardy for sure after he beat Rhiana up, but the whole issue would have been more of an afterthought had he been white. Take Sean Connery for an example. He says something like that and it is not even really an issue. Mel Gibson could say something like that and there would never be a question of his career being in jeoopardy. If Chris Brown would have been on an interview saying something similar to what Sean Connery said before the public became privy to his inner pitbull, his career would have been in jeopardy for sure, just on the strength of him saying it.

Not at ALL to say that that makes what Chris Brown did any less terrible; I'm just pointing out the double standard. White America cared much less about the state of Rhianna as a battered woman and much more about trying to make it impossible for Chris Brown as a black male to continue with a 'promising career'. Meanwhile, Black America cared much less about the fact that Chris Brown had just Ike Turnered Rhiana and much more about "supporting their favorite artist". What could be expected though? Our people are the same ones who keep allowing R. Kelly to be completely out of order without any lasting disapproval. He gets bad press (as he should) after he does sick stuff. Then, though, he makes another "I Believe I can Fly"-like song and everybody seems to forget that he just did some really sick stuff AGAIN. I digress.

Sure there were those in Black America who did not support and still do not support Chris Brown's violence or even his career, but those voices are far outnumbered by the voices of the star-struck who, like a foolish woman after each and every beating and instance of disrespect, "stand by their man". There are very few DJs who will refuse to play the music of Chris Brown or pretty much anyone because they don't call the shots. Big business calls the shots and even for the DJs with a little more independence, for the most part, popularity calls the shots. It's a sad reality but reality it is here. So then, bad behavior is not cool...at least not until enough people say that it is.

Back on domestic violence, I'll tell you another ridiculous institution that supports this sickness inadvertently and that is the 'black church'. For the most part, the consensus is built around this mentality "If a man is your husband, you must withstand everything that comes your way, because God hates divorce." So, women are being abused in various ways yet this abuse is coming from their husbands so the best advice many of these women are being given by their christian community is to "pray that God softens their husbands' hearts". Sick, right? The sad reality, however, is that most of our people here are really deep into this institution. The problem is so profound that even the radio talk show host & civil rights advocate Michael Baisden felt compelled to speak out against this. Some years ago, he started doing a show dedicated to the topic of helping people leave such violent relationship situations called "Pray and Pack!" Yes though, perhaps the biggest male chauvinists in the black church are the black women! Oh but let me not appear to paint this as something that is only a problem in the black church.

What messages does it transmit to our girls, that it is their 'duty' to accept our violence and lack of discipline as they become women???




I never will forget reading this book "The Black Man's Guide to Understanding th Black Woman" by Sharazad Ali. I read the book primarily because I wanted to see if its author's words had been diced and and manipulated as is often the case or even if what the author said had been misinterpreted for the worse. Sharazad Ali's book caused quite an uproar mainly because it was said that in her book, she advocated the beating of the black man by the black woman. In her book, she also considers dreadlocs to be "unsanitary".


I know that it is because of a personal thing that I have against our using such outlets/mediums for our problems, but anyway, this is a link of the Geraldo Show. This particular show is about the Sharazad Ali and her controversial book . Ali explains her views on this show, some of the panel agree with her, some do not. At any rate, the discussion on this show , the many levels it reaches, is very telling in reference to this topic as well as the last question that you asked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tCJbAs0TrY

Edited by Diasporan Dawta, 13 July 2012 - 02:41 PM.


#8 Diasporan Dawta

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 04:03 PM

Can humming like a humming bird raise vibrations so highly until it makes an abusive guy lose his urge to stomp a mudhole in you?

At least some sisters (I don't know how many, but at least two) seem to think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKZFI04la9g

I admire and respect Queen Afua's work and commitment, but I must admit that I do not follow this one...at all.

I remember reading Queen Afua's "Sacred Woman" and to me, it is wonderful. However, I can't get with the whole woman changing the frequency/raising the vibrations to sweeten the heart of her abusive man. That, to me, is not too far from the black christian "stay and pray" solution to abusive marriages.

I wouldn't be so narrowminded as to make her section about this the purpose of Queen Afua's interview, her book or her work in general and I would not ever try to make it seem as though she is advocating the abusing of African women. However, I do believe that this message inadvertently attributes to the justification of abuse. This is directly related to the question "Can women make men hit them?" If a sister can hum and make a brother not beat her, surely she can chose to not hum and make a brother beat her. What thinking along these lines does is to put the actual choice to abuse in the hands of the woman who is being abused. The choice to abuse iis taken from the hand of the abusive guy and is put into the hands of the woman who can stop the abuse from taking place not by straight up leaving the abuser but by "raising the frequency".

If a grown male is abusive, he, first and foremost needs to deal with himself. Brothers, can you imagine a guy using the "frequency" issue in explaining to you why your daughter has a black eye? "If only she woulda hummed, all this coulda been avoided". Probably worse, can you imagine your daughter using the frequency issue to explain to you why her man gave her the black eye? "He hurt me because he is hurting. I knew I was missing something from the grocery list when I was at the natural foods store; it was the rose oil. If only I woulda had it to run my hurting husband his sweet healing bath, I wouldn't have this black eye."

Are our brothers hurting? Of course they are. So are their sisters. The same conditions that have made our lives a living hell for centuries on top of centuries are the same conditions that have made their lives a living hell for centuries upon centuries. Just as, though, our pain does not give us the right to abuse our brothers, our brothers' pain does not give our brothers the right to abuse their sisters. Shouldn't we use our common struggles as reasons to draw nearer to one another, to support one another more and not to beat on one another? ("Brother, I'm hurting from many centuries of abuse//rape/oppression, so do pardon me as I stomp mudholes in you anytime I so choose. It's da pain from livin in this white male's sytem dat's makin me do this, Brutha. On the flip side, you can stop it anytime you want by humming or burning non-toxic incense or putting rose oil in my bath water.")

It is my perception that this more holistic justification for abuse is yet another result of male chauvinism ( which in my opinion, is on the other side of feminism but I digress). Male chauvinism has many faces and sometimes, we just can't recognize these faces. Not even when they are staring at us from the other side of the mirror.

Edited by Diasporan Dawta, 04 August 2012 - 04:16 PM.


#9 Toyin

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 11:05 PM

That's something. This guy had to have had a good idea about her intelligence before they entered a serious relationship. I mean I know he couldn't have woken up one day like, "Dang; this woman is too intelligent for my tastes!"

It seems as though for a guy such as this, intelligence attracts him yet that he is threatened by the very thing that he is attracted to. Equally and attracted to and threatened by something. That type of conflict is just way too much; why it's enough to make somebody get slapped!


Truth be told many men like the challenge of the chase. The 'conquering' of the intelligence is often a sweet high until he learns she willingly submitted and when angry is capable of using it against him. A confident man would not be threatened but instead proud that he has a woman with an ingenious/mischievous warrior spirit that is totally at their family disposal. Sadly many men in the western hemisphere are not confident men and as thier insecurity grows learns to get on in life by assimilating and riding the coattails of 'white' male supremacy.

Meanwhile, Black America cared much less about the fact that Chris Brown had just Ike Turnered Rhiana and much more about "supporting their favorite artist". What could be expected though? Our people are the same ones who keep allowing R. Kelly to be completely out of order without any lasting disapproval. He gets bad press (as he should) after he does sick stuff. Then, though, he makes another "I Believe I can Fly"-like song and everybody seems to forget that he just did some really sick stuff AGAIN. I digress.

Sure there were those in Black America who did not support and still do not support Chris Brown's violence or even his career, but those voices are far outnumbered by the voices of the star-struck who, like a foolish woman after each and every beating and instance of disrespect, "stand by their man".


I am a strong believer of the maxim that reads we will keep repeating our mistakes until we learn the lesson. Kelly will strike again, his 'god' complex demands it. :angry:

Back on domestic violence, I'll tell you another ridiculous institution that supports this sickness inadvertently and that is the 'black church'. For the most part, the consensus is built around this mentality "If a man is your husband, you must withstand everything that comes your way, because God hates divorce." So, women are being abused in various ways yet this abuse is coming from their husbands so the best advice many of these women are being given by their christian community is to "pray that God softens their husbands' hearts". Sick, right? The sad reality, however, is that most of our people here are really deep into this institution.


Definitely sick. I mean how can you argue with god if he says that its a greater sin to leave an abusive partner than it is to endure the licks. I suppose the question 'what would jesus do?' supports the theory.

I never will forget reading this book "The Black Man's Guide to Understanding th Black Woman" by Sharazad Ali. I read the book primarily because I wanted to see if its author's words had been diced and and manipulated as is often the case or even if what the author said had been misinterpreted for the worse. Sharazad Ali's book caused quite an uproar mainly because it was said that in her book, she advocated the beating of the black man by the black woman. In her book, she also considers dreadlocs to be "unsanitary".


In all honesty i have mixed views on this. I have not read the book and my first instinct is Sharazad Ali is entitled to her views. Like you I hate this kind of trash tv public airing but there are times it serves a purpose if only to hold a shaming mirror up to the poor behaviour in our community.

I know Sharazad said she believes we are equally responsible and I love her assertion that we must identify our own solutions for our problems. But I totally disagree with her acceptance of the use of force by brothers to discipline sistas.

“Smacking [a sista] in the mouth” as a means of awakening her?

Without reading the book I don’t know if the rest of it is positive. You see I too believe we are both EQUALLY responsible for the state of our community.

However just as I believe that the African women as mother has a powerful role in the development of our children as their first educator, I also believe that the African man has a responsibility to assert his authority/manhood on the world by challenging those forces that threaten our families, our community, our future.

Together we have to build institutions but we play different roles in that mission.

This is directly related to the question "Can women make men hit them?" If a sister can hum and make a brother not beat her, surely she can chose to not hum and make a brother beat her. What thinking along these lines does is to put the actual choice to abuse in the hands of the woman who is being abused. The choice to abuse iis taken from the hand of the abusive guy and is put into the hands of the woman who can stop the abuse from taking place not by straight up leaving the abuser but by "raising the frequency".

If a grown male is abusive, he, first and foremost needs to deal with himself. Brothers, can you imagine a guy using the "frequency" issue in explaining to you why your daughter has a black eye? "If only she woulda hummed, all this coulda been avoided". Probably worse, can you imagine your daughter using the frequency issue to explain to you why her man gave her the black eye? "He hurt me because he is hurting. I knew I was missing something from the grocery list when I was at the natural foods store; it was the rose oil. If only I woulda had it to run my hurting husband his sweet healing bath, I wouldn't have this black eye."


My sista you really are teaching important lessons here. Thanks for sharing.

I hear you on not wanting to disrespect our sista Afua, I also have heard wonderful things about her book. But the idea that using ‘humming’or giving juice or salad to sooth and nurse the abusive man places the onus on the sista to accept negative behaviour from brothas.

I agree that if a man comes home vexed from a challenging day that his woman drawing a bath to help him ‘de-stress’ or offering a cup of herbal tea to calm him may work. But this is just the same as when a woman comes home from a troubling day on the plantation and her man needs to know how to make sure he’s feed and bathed the children, helped with their school homework, sorted out any domestics that would increase her workload, and asked ‘whats wrong baby?’ and LISTEN (even if there’s something on the box).

If when i was younger, immature, and lacked control of my fiery temper a woman kept starting to hum at me when I needed to just sit, think, eat and chill, then that would of strain our relationship... unless of course she’s was a fantastic singer/dancer, intelligent debater, great listener or straight up funny in which case after her ‘healing’ my mood we’d listen to or make some sweet music together. :biggrin:


Shouldn't we use our common struggles as reasons to draw nearer to one another, to support one another more and not to beat on one another?


But what if as a man you belive the hype that sistas are having it easier, they get the jobs, money, status and we as men are beign emasculated, forced to live like grown boys unable to provide for our families, our pain is so much harder we need more support from you, more uinderstanding, after all you got the money and the love of the children.

It is my perception that this more holistic justification for abuse is yet another result of male chauvinism ( which in my opinion, is on the other side of feminism but I digress). Male chauvinism has many faces and sometimes, we just can't recognize these faces. Not even when they are staring at us from the other side of the mirror.


Thats a whole 'nother story.

#10 Diasporan Dawta

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:42 AM

You see I too believe we are both EQUALLY responsible for the state of our community.

However just as I believe that the African women as mother has a powerful role in the development of our children as their first educator, I also believe that the African man has a responsibility to assert his authority/manhood on the world by challenging those forces that threaten our families, our community, our future.

Together we have to build institutions but we play different roles in that mission.

Brotha Toyin for president! :clap: If more of us saw things the way that you see them, we would truly be well on our way.

If when i was younger, immature, and lacked control of my fiery temper a woman kept starting to hum at me when I needed to just sit, think, eat and chill, then that would of strain our relationship... unless of course she’s was a fantastic singer/dancer, intelligent debater, great listener or straight up funny in which case after her ‘healing’ my mood we’d listen to or make some sweet music together. :biggrin:

:-D Next to your talents, a sister with such talents? I'd buy that cd any day!

If only she would have made him some juice -while humming- when she came upstairs.

But what if as a man you belive the hype that sistas are having it easier, they get the jobs, money, status and we as men are beign emasculated, forced to live like grown boys unable to provide for our families, our pain is so much harder we need more support from you, more uinderstanding, after all you got the money and the love of the children.

Well if his woman is anything like him in that sense, she would probably say something like this: "How can you fix your mouth to complain to me about all the stuff you go through when we can work the same position at the same plantation yet I make less simply because our reproductive organs differ? You think you got it hard? Who you think gotta take care of your black babies when you decide that you 'tired of dealin wit black women and they' attitudes?" I'm here in my rose oil bath, chillin, readin Zora Neale Hurston's "Their Eyes were Watching God" and speaking of Zora Neale Hurston, this is what she said about the black woman:"

Honey, de white man is de ruler of everything as far as Ah been able tuh find out. Maybe it’s some place off in de ocean where de black man is in power, but we don’t know nothin’ but we see. So de white man throw down de load and tell de [n word] man tuh pick it up. He pick it up because he have to, but he don’t tote it. He hand it to his womenfolks. De [n word] woman is de mule uh de world so far as Ah can see.

"You had the nerve to interrupt my rose oil bath for this and then had even more nerve to pop your chops about who is most oppressed? As a black woman, I am oppressed by the same white system that oppresses you and let me tell you something, you done pushed my BUTTONS and as soon as I get out of this rose oil bath, it's ON :boxing: !"
*She gets out of the tub, runs to the kitchen, and grabs a cast iron skillet.*
*He hums like humming bird*
*She pauses in mid air and the cast iron skillet falls. She has an epiphany*
"Why are we fighting against one another, Black Man? I'm not your enemy and you are not mine; we've both been bamboozled. If we should be fighting, surely we should be fighting on the same team.We need each other and we do have to fight..but not against one another. Let's not play into this scheme anymore! :cheer_up:"

Queen Afua might be on to something. lol

#11 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 05:29 PM

... Why do our Dj's and presenters still play his music - do they have no moral integrity? ...

 

I would imagine that:

 

1.  Most of them have absolutely no idea what those words mean; and / or

 

2.  Many of them engage in exactly the same type of behaviour.



#12 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 08:19 PM

I have one question... why?

Why would women flock to buy this guys music after his history of abusive behaviour?

rihanna-bruises.jpg

Why do our Dj's and presenters still play his music - do they have no moral integrity?

If the woman he had beaten up was Cheryl Cole do you think that Radio One or music mags around the western world would still have supported him?

His twitter response to critics when winning his grammy was;



rihanna-beaten-face.jpg

Was does our excusing his behaviour teach our boys, that bad behaviour is 'cool'?



What messages does it transmit to our girls, that it is their 'duty' to accept our violence and lack of discipline as they become women???

 

 
Chris Brown accused of assaulting woman in nightclub and rendering her in need of possible surgery (click for more)


article-0-1A7CA460000005DC-459_306x502.j


Sister Deanna Gines alleges that she was assaulted by Chris Brown in a nightclub on Saturday (22 June 2013)
 



#13 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

"Despite scores of public-education campaigns and female-empowerment programmes, there are still women in Jamaica who believe their men beat them because they love them ..."

Begging for a beating: Some Jamaican women still believe 'mi man lick mi because him love me' (click for more madness)



#14 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 02:31 PM

 

This is one of those taboo topics that we often hate talking about, but how many men deep down agree with this statement made by Waterman?


Do feisty women need a thump to put them back in their place. Do they make men do it?


What about sistas, do you agree? Are there women who deliberately goad their men into hitting them as a means of proving their 'love', I mean a man wouldn't respond so 'passionately' if deep down he didn't care - right?

 

 

 

Meet Brother Roland McKoy 53, of Oswald's Mead, Hackney, east London ...
 
_79792719_mdr27-14mckoy.jpg
 
... on 17 December 2014, a judge imprisoned him for a minimum 35 years after a jury at the Old Bailey him guilty of double murder.
 
 
Valerie Forde, 45, and her 23 month-old daughter Real-Jahzarah McKoy were found dead at their home on 31 March 2014.
 
Police broke down the door of the three-storey house in Oswald's Mead, Homerton, east London, after receiving a 999 call from relatives at 9.11 a.m.
Ms Forde, an office manager for the Hackney Marsh Partnership, and her daughter were pronounced dead at the scene.
 
Post-mortem examinations later revealed Valerie Forde had died of multiple injuries and her daughter had died of incised wounds to the neck. Valerie had suffered up to 17 blows from a hammer, a series of cuts to her face and neck and eight stab wounds to her stomach.
 
Valerie's 53 year-old partner was found injured at the address was arrested on suspicion of murder and taken to hospital for treatment. He was discharged from hospital on 9 April and taken into custody.
 
On 10 April detectives charged Roland McKoy with two counts of murder.
 
McKoy, who emigrated from Jamaica in the 1980s, went on trial at the Old Bailey on 8 December 2014. The prosecution claimed McKoy murdered his partner and daughter out of 'anger and resentment' after being told to move out of the family home.
 
Jurors heard how the couple began a relationship in 1995 but it began to deteriorate in 1999 when Ms Forde discovered McKoy was married and was still seeing his wife and two children. Although the relationship improved after the birth of Real-Jahzarah, there were often rows about McKoy's failure to contribute to the household.
In December 2013 Valerie Forde gave McKoy a deadline of 31 March 2014 to leave unless he paid £150 a month towards rent, food and the upkeep of the children.
Ms Forde also reported McKoy to police on 12 February 2014 after he allegedly told a neighbour he was going to kill her and her family by burning down the house.
 
The start of the attack was overheard by Ms Forde's eldest daughter Carrise over the phone after she received a call at 9.06 a.m. on 31 March.
 
23EA072900000578-2877788-image-m-11_1418
 
The brutal murders were overheard on the phone by Ms Forde's older daughter, Carrise, who attended court during McKoy's trial
 
Police officers arrived at 9.17 a.m. to find no sign of a disturbance. They forced entry and found both Valerie and Jahzarah dead. McKoy had cuts to his neck and stomach and vomited bleach after being roused by paramedics.
A note was found covering Valerie Forde's face reading: '
 
"Valerie Forde you never stop playing derty ticks (sic) for many years on all people places and things you targets. Now the world must see the sudden destru..tions you creates in our families, our home and on yourself. Our fame in history. Roland."
 
Prosecutor Ed Brown QC said: 'A true and full understanding of the reason for these terrible killings may be beyond sensible comprehension but all of the available evidence points to little more than anger and resentment as the cause.'
 
McKoy, who had previous convictions for drugs and benefit offences, claimed he acted in self defence after Ms Forde killed their daughter.
 
On 17 December McKoy was convicted of both counts of murder and jailed for life with a minimum of 35 years before parole.
 
The family of Valerie Forde said in a statement: "No matter how many years he receives it will not bring Valerie and Jahzara back. The pain will still continue for our family for the rest of our lives. His actions have destroyed the lives of Valerie and Jahzara's family, friends and the wider community in Hackney. Their deaths will not be in vain."
 
Investigating officer Detective Chief Inspector Charles King, of the Homicide and Major Crime Command, said: "Research has shown that women are at greatest risk of homicide at the point of separation or after leaving a violent partner.
 
What Roland McKoy did on that day in March almost defies belief, but it is a stark warning that extreme violence within such relationships is a very real possibility.
"McKoy lost control as the reality hit home that Valerie was adamant he must leave and carried out a horrific attack with a variety of weapons. Not only did he vent his fury at his partner but he also killed his baby daughter." 
 
Following the murders, the Metropolitan Police's Directorate of Professional Standards referred the case to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, due to the victim's previous contact with police regarding alleged domestic violence, which is investigating and their probe is understood to be near completion.
 
Five police officers are being investigated for alleged gross misconduct and four for misconduct. A police staff member has also been served notice of investigation.
 
 
241F2EC600000578-2877788-Roland_McKoy_ha
 
Prosecutor Ed Brown QC said: "It is plain that the defendant had attacked Valerie Forde with the hammer, slashed her face and neck with the machete and stabbed her multiple times with the screwdriver.
 
"It is equally clear from the evidence that the defendant used that same machete to cut Jahzara's neck from one side to the other. Each attack was a brutal one."
 
241F2EC600000578-2877788-Roland_McKoy_ha
 
 
Judge Charles Wide QC told McKoy: 'You have been convicted of the deliberate, horrific killing of Valerie and your 22-month-old child Jahzarah.
 
'You did it out of spite and resentment that Valerie at long last had the strength and resolution to say that enough was enough and you had to go.
 
'She had given you three months and you had done precious little. You thought she was going to back down but she didn't and that was an affront to your monstrous egotism.
 
'There was real deliberation here, you went downstairs to get the weapons and this is real substantial aggravation.
 
'Three of them - a hammer, a screwdriver, a fearsome stabbing weapon, and a machete - and you took them upstairs where your attack on Valerie, who was simply getting ready to go to work, was savage and sustained.
 
'One weapon after the other you used, you put one down and picked up the other one.
 
'It involved repeated, heavy blows with the hammer to the head, heavy blows with the machete to the head, and we have seen the dreadful injuries you caused, and repeated stabbing with the screwdriver to the body.
 
'On and on this brutal attack continued not less than 33 blows and when you had killed her you then turned your attention to a 22-month-old child.
 
'We have heard the description of what you did to her, plainly with the machete at the throat.
 
'Your lethal actions have left children without a mother and without their sister and caused grievous loss and distress to a close, loving family and community.
 
'If you survive you will be an old man before you became eligible to be considered for release.
 
'What struck me and everybody during the trial is that you showed not an atom of regret at what you did. Having slain Valerie, your partner for years and years, and your 22-month-old daughter, on whom we are told you doted, no regret at all.'
 
33forde1912a.jpg
 
Brother Roland McKoy & his partner, The Late Valerie Forde, on whom he inflicted 33 separate blows to her head and body with a hammer, machete and screwdriver.
 
33RealJahzara1912a.jpg
 
Their daughter, Real-Jahzara McKoy, who had her throat slit with a machete by Brother Roland McKoy





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