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Feminism Is Anti-african!


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#1 Mogho Naaba

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 12:09 PM

Feminism is anti African



Feminism is a Eurocentric concept rooted in an out of balance european society. In Africa there was no need for this destructive concept, as African women and men harmonized into the society; each respectful of their different roles. A woman saw nothing inferior in cooking, the act of caring for her man gave her pleasure and the act of protecting a woman gave a man pleasure. We need to remember that our anti-polygamy mindset and our entire value system were given to us by the european when they destroyed our civilizations. We have their culture and have made our own taboo. Do you think for example they could be an Africa without polygamy?



But a westernize look at Polygamy for example makes it seem unbalance and unfair. To each his own but it is really only another system which is older than monogamy and has been more successful in the history of humanity. Not saying do it or don’t do it (and most men say its wrong and then cheat?—go figure which is worst). Just that we recognize that our taboos were given to us by our conquer and “civilizer” and the things which they didn’t do became our new taboos (nothing to do with us all to do with their taste and take on the world). Yet homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted in African-America. We have drifted so far it is impossible to measure.


We have become lost to ourselves seeking to be something and someone that we are not.


Femanism is so often confused with womens rights, they are so not the same thing. The rights of women are informed by the culture (washed by Justice and truth) feminism is just a perversion of nature. Imagine a woman leaving a child with a man to bottle feed while she goes to work—that is feminism. or chasing a career and having a child at 40!!! femanism actually injurs the natural rights of a woman. It denies them the most beautiful gifts sent from the creator.


When a man and a woman respect each other in an African way the woman has no need to react and find anti-african philosophies.

#2 PantherWoman

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 06:02 PM

fem·i·nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fm-nzm)
n.
1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
2. The movement organized around this belief.


Feminism has it's benefits. I'm happy that because of feminism women like myself have the option of providing for my own basic needs (achieved by working outside the home) rather than having no choice but to be dependent on another person (a husband) to provide for my needs in the same way as I did when I was a child; a time when I had no choice but to depend on my parents to provide for my every need.

Does anyone think that is a bad thing, and that women would be better off if they were still having to rely on a man's income in order to feed and clothe themselves and any offspring?

How many men would prefer to go back to a time when a woman's place was in the home and she was depending on him to take care of all her material needs, while she took care of the children and the household chores only?

How many men think it's more 'natural' for them to work outside the home for 40+ hours a week and never really see or spend much time with their children? Is this what men should be doing while women stay home? Do men miss out when they devote their time to providing for children they never really get to spend any time with? Does the fact they haven't given birth to the children mean it is 'better' for them than it is for a woman, to be away from them for long periods of time? I've read quite a few articles where extremely successful business men have said they regret the time they spent away from their families so it would seem there are men who also have a 'natural' desire to be close to their offspring whilst they are growing up. Often, because of the way our society is structured and the expectations we have based on gender, these men have to ignore this 'natural' desire.

How many men have a problem with the idea of two parents/adults sharing financial and household/family responsibilities in a way that best reflects the capabilities/strengths/desires of the individuals in that particular partnership?

If you were earning £10,000 a year and your wife was earning £35,000 a year would any of you men prefer her to jack her job in to become a stay-at-home mom (full-time until the kids reach 18) while you continue to work and bring home the bacon from your 10 grand a year job? Or would you prefer that your woman did not work at all outside the home regardless of her earning potential? Before feminism, this would not have been a consideration, and I sometimes wonder for all the noise a lot of men make about feminism, how many men these days would really relish the burden of being totally responsible for the welfare (in material terms) of another grown able adult.

I'm not talking about if you were in Africa and had never been touched by Western values and norms - I'm talking about right now, in this life, in this country... which is all many of us know or have any experience of. Let's deal with the reality of the situation. The system we currently live in is not designed (any longer) to allow women the option of the kind of lifestyle she would have been leading pre-feminism. Birth control is something that allowed women greater freedom. Before reliable contraceptives were widespread, any sexually active woman who was fertile would have been pregnant and/or lactating with young 'uns for the majority of her child-bearing years - now we can choose not to and that does free up our time somewhat. Some of us now use that time to earn a living for ourselves. Before women had the choice to control their fertility, and before they had equal access to the workplace; staying at home to cook and clean and breeding non stop was the only option open to us. Would it have been better like that? Perhaps it would have been. Perhaps not.

Obviously men cannot give birth or breast feed so those are undoubtedly women's jobs but what other duties are there that women traditionally performed, which they are best suited to perform...and now due to feminism they no longer perform?

What particular aspect of feminism is anti-African? I understand western feminism as we know it is not Africentric, but I am not clear after reading this article on what part of it is particularly anti-African.

There is an interesting article on this site in Me2We called Eurofeminism which is worth reading for a different perspective.

#3 Oshun

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 05:33 PM

@ Prince Hakeem,

I'm sorry but i don't agree. I studied feminism at university and one thing people seem to get wrong is that its all about manhating and doing away with men and the family structure which is just not true.

PantherWoman was right on point with her response (thankyou sis, saved me alot of fingerwork!) The truth of the matter is like most things in life you have to be able to achieve a workable balance. This seems to be what life is about achieving a balance were things more or less work for everybody.
We can't really speak about before the europeans came because they came and this is what has happened to us in our history. There are now many Afrikan business women who still raise there families well would they have been business women before feminism no probably not but options have became available to them.
And what of the woman who stays in her home and looks after the kids and is solely dependant on her husband what happens if he leaves or messes up the finances what happens to her and the kids then? No skills, no confidence, no work, no money = benefit.
A woman who comes into to do some work with me for 1 hour a day was that person. She has 2 children and relied solely on her husband for everything bar the little change she was earning from her 5hours a week and he remortgaged their house and lent all their savings to a friend who subsequently ran off with the money (it was nearly half a million pounds). Now there up shit street and with huge mortgage repayments and he the only breadwinner.
Admitidly these people are stupid (there not african you know an african woman wouldn't let that happen) but the point is the same if she had a little independance then she could work and help out with the repayments but she knows nothing.

I think you should look at a site called blacktown.net if you haven't already personally i think its vile and very misguided in places.


Admin if you want me to remove the name of the site i will but just thought it would aid discussion.




L&B
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SHINE ON, mother of a thousand dreams tend to those dreams with strength and compassion...
SHINE ON, woman of a thousand hopes, show everyone the beauty within you - the beauty that comes from knowing who you are

#4 Mogho Naaba

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 08:50 PM

QUOTE (Oshun @ May 30 2006, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@ Prince Hakeem,

I'm sorry but i don't agree.


You don't have to be "sorry" because I didn't write the article.

#5 Twang

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:23 AM

I agree with certain aspects of that article bcoz some sista’s do tend to take the european concept of feminism to the extreme where they managed to convince themselves life is much better without a man.

#6 BlackMatta

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:23 AM

QUOTE (PantherWoman @ Apr 21 2006, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Feminism has it's benefits. I'm happy that because of feminism women like myself have the option of providing for my own basic needs (achieved by working outside the home) rather than having no choice but to be dependent on another person (a husband) to provide for my needs in the same way as I did when I was a child; a time when I had no choice but to depend on my parents to provide for my every need.

Does anyone think that is a bad thing, and that women would be better off if they were still having to rely on a man's income in order to feed and clothe themselves and any offspring?


When you work outside the home you are still dependent. You are dependent on your workplace, boss, market, etc. If you work in the home your husband is dependent on you to look after the children and home. Only a hermit escapes interdependency.

Dependency is not the issue but how people relate to the things they are dependent on, how reliable they find them, and how fulfilling they are in terms of life objectives.

People are more likely to trust and rely on others similar to themselves. If the social environment has been engineered so that money is the most effective means by which a group of people speak then it is to money that group will turn.

The questions remain - is that engineered system about fulfilling your life objectives or is it exploiting them? Is it interested in you as a person or as a resource? Is it really superior to community and family?

Edited by BlackMatta, 01 June 2006 - 10:24 AM.

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#7 PantherWoman

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 12:11 PM

QUOTE (BlackMatta @ Jun 1 2006, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When you work outside the home you are still dependent. You are dependent on your workplace, boss, market, etc. If you work in the home your husband is dependent on you to look after the children and home. Only a hermit escapes interdependency.

Dependency is not the issue but how people relate to the things they are dependent on, how reliable they find them, and how fulfilling they are in terms of life objectives.

People are more likely to trust and rely on others similar to themselves. If the social environment has been engineered so that money is the most effective means by which a group of people speak then it is to money that group will turn.

The questions remain - is that engineered system about fulfilling your life objectives or is it exploiting them? Is it interested in you as a person or as a resource? Is it really superior to community and family?


Depending on how valuable the skills a person has of course, someone who loses their job outside the home can go and find another fairly easily. You are right in that they are depending on the workplace, boss, market etc so they would need to find another workplace if the one they had been dependent on for the money to meet their needs/wants was to go bust for instance.

Depending on another person to go and get the money from the particular workplace they are depending on, is like you say another form of dependency; the difference is - it might take you a bit longer (especially in this day and age) to find another person who is prepared to let you depend on them for cash, than it would take for you to find another job from which you would get your own cash directly, paid into your own account to meet your own needs.

A working husband depending on his wife to look after the home and children could (in a lot of cases) quite easily pay a nanny and a housekeeper to do the same thing, so he would not be as dependent as it might seem - on the wife.

If you are a heart surgeon, you have the option of relying on the income generated from your own skills to pay your bills, rather than relying on another person's income to pay those bills. Women can now have the option of working as surgeons (and other professions) so they can pay their own bills, and in my opinion that is a good thing. Whether the female surgeon is being treated as a resource or being exploited I'm sure would be irrelevant to her if she felt her life's objectives were being fulfilled.

This is the system in place (you need money to meet your needs) so we have to work within it, therefore it is a good thing that women can now be responsible for getting their own money instead of hoping someone else (husband, or parents if not married) is willing to share their money fairly with them, while they perform essential duties such as childcare or housework. Some women in the past would perform those duties hoping their husband would share the money he went outside the home to earn and be disappointed when their children went to bed hungry and had to wear clothing that they had outgrown because the wage earner decided to do other things with the family's money - drink, gamble, visit brothels etc.

Nowadays people want foreign holidays, labour saving devices, their own transportation etc; so money has become more important to most people than it would have been in days gone by. Not just used to obtain food, shelter and clothing but for other things which people now value as well, entertainment, travel etc. Family and community are still important and most women who now have the option of working outside the home would probably agree.

#8 BlackMatta

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 02:59 PM

@PantherWoman

I think most of your post just emphasises what I said about 'reliability' and 'fulfilment'.

The question remains, what happened to cultural values and why have they been sacrificed for a system in which the individual is just a resource rather than a person? Have people given up on improving and developing cultural values?

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#9 Twang

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 03:58 PM

QUOTE (BlackMatta @ Jun 1 2006, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The question remains, what happened to cultural values and why have they been sacrificed for a system in which the individual is just a resource rather than a person? Have people given up on improving and developing cultural values?

This is exactly where the African family values went wrong once they stepped into the Western arena most parents of first generation Africans were fine together until they entered europe from Africa and Caribbean this truly was the beginning of the end.

#10 Oshun

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 08:04 PM

Can you only uphold cultural/family values by being dependant on a husband for everything?

And what does happen to the woman and the children if for some reason she dosen't get the necessary resources (from the husband) to maintain they're existance?

I'm sure a return to the days before feminism when the woman was as dependant on her husband as children are to their parents is something many men relish but in todays world it isn't always practical. Its alot of pressure for the man to effectivly become a human bank.

Edited by Oshun, 04 June 2006 - 08:05 PM.

SHINE ON, daughter of a thousand generations, send your light fourth into this tired world...
SHINE ON, mother of a thousand dreams tend to those dreams with strength and compassion...
SHINE ON, woman of a thousand hopes, show everyone the beauty within you - the beauty that comes from knowing who you are

#11 Sooofresh

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:17 PM

Ha!
it seems everything is *cultural* when the women is submissive and depenedent but when the women is a responsible adult in her own right then she is *western*

well me.......i don't care .........VIVA LA FEMINISIM

we are the new generation and we will change the future generation.

Boys my age don't have problems, if anything nothing is off putiing to them then a grown adult being dependent like a child, they tend to prefer women with views and pizzaz...........

we need to get used to it......

#12 Twang

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 06:15 PM

I suppose with the big switch in place with men becoming house husbands at least we will be the ones continually getting harassed for sex and being able to use it as a tool in order to get things done now that’s a cultural change I can most definitely accept.

#13 Djehutis Wisdom

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 06:32 PM

QUOTE (Twang @ Jun 6 2006, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose with the big switch in place with men becoming house husbands at least we will be the ones continually getting harassed for sex and being able to use it as a tool in order to get things done now that’s a cultural change I can most definitely accept.


Twang, when the females see this post I hope you know they're not going to be too happy with that stereotype you just decided to post.

When they see this, I wish you luck. sad.gif
I was born with two ears and one mouth. One guess as to which should be used more.


#14 Twang

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 06:44 PM

QUOTE (Africanphoenix @ Jun 6 2006, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Twang, when the females see this post I hope you know they're not going to be too happy with that stereotype you just decided to post.

When they see this, I wish you luck. sad.gif



Dont stress yourself my brotha most females on this forum already know my poitics I'm sure most get my drift. cool.gif

#15 Mogho Naaba

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:27 PM

QUOTE (Twang @ Jun 6 2006, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose with the big switch in place with men becoming house husbands at least we will be the ones continually getting harassed for sex and being able to use it as a tool in order to get things done now that’s a cultural change I can most definitely accept.




#16 Tafari Shabazz

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 02:09 AM

Feminism started in europe, that doesn't meet that sisters who are 'feminist' cant be Afrocentric in their outlook, why should european women have the dominance on the concept of female empowerment. In my opinion our sisters strength and empowerment is just as importent as the other struggles. Of course it has its bad points, such as men-hating lesbian ball-crushers (unless thats your thang?), but I don't know if feminism is anti-african.

Perhaps were it conflicts with traditional tribal cultures etc...

Please note: years of indoctrination by my mother my have had an affect.

#17 Voo

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 03:26 PM

QUOTE (PRINCE HAKEEM @ Apr 21 2006, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Feminism is anti African

I think you have to define what feminism is. African women and european women may have very different ideas based on their cultural realities and histories.

I don't tend to use the word 'feminism'. I haven't resolved myself as to whether this is useful or not, although I am leaning towards the latter. We ideally need an African word to describe our own relevant ideology. In the abscence of an African word/s, I tend to refer to women's rights which are generally synonymous with human rights.


Feminism is a Eurocentric concept rooted in an out of balance european society.

I'd tend to agree. But that's only if the definition of feminism is defined as that nonsense peddled by liberalesque european women who think hating men and being 'allowed' to work are their primary concerns.

In Africa there was no need for this destructive concept, as African women and men harmonized into the society; each respectful of their different roles.

This was true but historically intervention on the Continent has contaminated some of these perspectives. As soofresh rightly pointed out, anything that vaguely appears to challenge a man's perception of a western model of manhood is now deemed 'western' and anything that says woman must cook, clean and bow after her husband is 'traditional'. This devious scheme of thought is basically utilised to ensure that men can still reap the benefits of a european male supremacist.

A woman saw nothing inferior in cooking, the act of caring for her man gave her pleasure and the act of protecting a woman gave a man pleasure.

Uh huh. Yes cooking is a skill and a power - the wrong kind of cooking can seriously and adversely affect your spirit. At the same time, I would like to challenge this notion of 'protection' because I hear brothers recite it again and again as if its the preserve of men alone. Not only that but the writer of the article clearly has a strong influence of white male supremacist roles for men and women. e.g. women = caring, man = protection when in reality, both genders are fully capable of both! From my experience, women tend to the best at protecting their families. But of course, because some brothas are so caught up in understanding the world purely on a physical plane, when you talk of 'protection', some men envision themselves walking bare chest down the road with a shield and spear in hand!!

We need to remember that our anti-polygamy mindset and our entire value system were given to us by the european when they destroyed our civilizations. We have their culture and have made our own taboo. Do you think for example they could be an Africa without polygamy?

And here comes the real crux of the argument. Men are so caught up in polygamy (generally as a means for sexual pleasure) that this is always pitted against 'feminist' thought in order to denounce it as 'western'. Bollox. Polygamy is a completely unrealistic and untenable system for Africans in the Diaspora and that is my point. If you really want to talk about polygamy as a 'traditional' system, then brothas will have to accept that a) very few are capable of maintaining a system of polygamy as per tradition cool.gif sex is not the primiary motivation for polygamous relationships c) polygamy is not really a viable of tenable mechanism right now and is therefore void as a strategy for Africans in the diaspora d) polygamy in the diaspora is often banded around as a 'solution' to the apparent 'man shortage'. Unfortunately, this does not address the fact that the issues underlying the 'man-shortage' (perceived or real) need to be addressed. I will leave my sistas on the Continent to talk very competently for themselves!

But a westernize look at Polygamy for example makes it seem unbalance and unfair. To each his own but it is really only another system which is older than monogamy and has been more successful in the history of humanity. Not saying do it or don’t do it (and most men say its wrong and then cheat?—go figure which is worst).

I agree with the latter part of this statement.

Femanism is so often confused with womens rights, they are so not the same thing. The rights of women are informed by the culture (washed by Justice and truth) feminism is just a perversion of nature. Imagine a woman leaving a child with a man to bottle feed while she goes to work—that is feminism. or chasing a career and having a child at 40!!! femanism actually injurs the natural rights of a woman. It denies them the most beautiful gifts sent from the creator.

Hmm. Nothing wrong with having a child at 40. If the body permits, why is it 'abnormal'? Nothing wrong with a man looking after children when his woman is at work. This is something that is as old as the hills! And if it works, who's to say that it is 'wrong'? People think this way because they are so consumed with valuing a person depending on how much money they make in this capitalist chaos. The value of a man looking after his children is not less than that of the woman going out to work.

When a man and a woman respect each other in an African way the woman has no need to react and find anti-african philosophies.
Bla bla bla. What about the fact that sistas have been the most successful at retaining a sense of the 'african way'? This is not a competition but a matter of reality. What about when the man reacts against 'the african way'? The 'failure' of african women is always what underpins this kind of discussion and it gets on my last nerve.



QUOTE (Twang @ Jun 6 2006, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I suppose with the big switch in place with men becoming house husbands at least we will be the ones continually getting harassed for sex and being able to use it as a tool in order to get things done now that’s a cultural change I can most definitely accept.


How in the world did i miss this?! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Last time I checked, brothas were struggling to keep up with us sistas! wink.gif wink.gif

Oh, and your argument falls down because we would have been 'getting things done' before you even had time to say 'woman run tings'. So you can't use nuttin' to get nuttin'! Alternatively, you should be getting the household things done anyway if you're gonna be loafting at home all day wink.gif By the time I get back from work, I expect dinner on the table (and I wanna be able to see the steam rising off it - no lukewarm business) after which I will need the mandatory foot and back rub before commencing the skirting board test and inspecting the bath. In the mornings, after I have showered, brushed teeth and put on my dressing gown (which you would have left on the radiator 15 minutes earlier to get warm), I will expect to come downstairs to a healthy breakfast of fresh fruit (preferably picked from the tress at the local farm - oh, an I like my grapefruits cut into sixes) and freshly squeezed lemon and orange juice (no pips). Whilst I am indulging in my brekkie and reading my newspaper (which you would have bought from the newsagents when it opened at 5am that morning), you will be ironing my clothes for the day. As I am getting dressed, you will be packing my lunch for the day including the sandwich roll made with the homebaked bread you made the night before. etc etc.

Boy, feminism sure smells good to me!
"To kill a woman is to kill humanity itself"

#18 Mogho Naaba

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 03:32 PM

^^^^Ah so yu chest high!

#19 Voo

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 03:52 PM

@ MN

I'm still waiting for you to give me your wife's number so I can recruit... I mean 'chat' to her! wink.gif
"To kill a woman is to kill humanity itself"

#20 PantherWoman

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Voo @ Sep 18 2007, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How in the world did i miss this?! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Last time I checked, brothas were struggling to keep up with us sistas! wink.gif wink.gif

Oh, and your argument falls down because we would have been 'getting things done' before you even had time to say 'woman run tings'. So you can't use nuttin' to get nuttin'! Alternatively, you should be getting the household things done anyway if you're gonna be loafting at home all day wink.gif By the time I get back from work, I expect dinner on the table (and I wanna be able to see the steam rising off it - no lukewarm business) after which I will need the mandatory foot and back rub before commencing the skirting board test and inspecting the bath. In the mornings, after I have showered, brushed teeth and put on my dressing gown (which you would have left on the radiator 15 minutes earlier to get warm), I will expect to come downstairs to a healthy breakfast of fresh fruit (preferably picked from the tress at the local farm - oh, an I like my grapefruits cut into sixes) and freshly squeezed lemon and orange juice (no pips). Whilst I am indulging in my brekkie and reading my newspaper (which you would have bought from the newsagents when it opened at 5am that morning), you will be ironing my clothes for the day. As I am getting dressed, you will be packing my lunch for the day including the sandwich roll made with the homebaked bread you made the night before. etc etc.

Boy, feminism sure smells good to me!


Now that's what I'm talking about! clap.gif

Especially the parts about the dressing gown on the radiator, and the packed lunch with the sandwich roll made from homebaked bread.




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