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Feminism Is Anti-african!


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#21 Mogho Naaba

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 06:18 PM

QUOTE (Voo @ Sep 18 2007, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@ MN

I'm still waiting for you to give me your wife's number so I can recruit... I mean 'chat' to her! wink.gif



Ah so yu chest high!!

#22 Twang

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 11:09 AM

QUOTE (Voo @ Sep 18 2007, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How in the world did i miss this?! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Last time I checked, brothas were struggling to keep up with us sistas! wink.gif wink.gif

Oh, and your argument falls down because we would have been 'getting things done' before you even had time to say 'woman run tings'. So you can't use nuttin' to get nuttin'! Alternatively, you should be getting the household things done anyway if you're gonna be loafting at home all day wink.gif By the time I get back from work, I expect dinner on the table (and I wanna be able to see the steam rising off it - no lukewarm business) after which I will need the mandatory foot and back rub before commencing the skirting board test and inspecting the bath. In the mornings, after I have showered, brushed teeth and put on my dressing gown (which you would have left on the radiator 15 minutes earlier to get warm), I will expect to come downstairs to a healthy breakfast of fresh fruit (preferably picked from the tress at the local farm - oh, an I like my grapefruits cut into sixes) and freshly squeezed lemon and orange juice (no pips). Whilst I am indulging in my brekkie and reading my newspaper (which you would have bought from the newsagents when it opened at 5am that morning), you will be ironing my clothes for the day. As I am getting dressed, you will be packing my lunch for the day including the sandwich roll made with the homebaked bread you made the night before. etc etc.

Boy, feminism sure smells good to me!


Wow You mean how did I miss this ??? huh.gif Ladies ladies ladies....

#23 Voo

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Posted 01 October 2007 - 09:50 PM

@ Twang

What's wrong babes? You get to eat too... once I've left for work. wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif
"To kill a woman is to kill humanity itself"

#24 Oshun

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 09:18 PM

Don't know that this is really the right place to put this but needed somewhere to drop an observation and pressing thought:

Discussing African couples a sistren of mine remarked on how the African couples you see are usually Africans from the continent and how its more usual to see AfricanCaribbean men in a couple with a european and not an AfricanCaribbean woman. I agreed, I think its quite clear that many AfricanCaribbean men find AfricanCaribbean women completely objectionable but I also believe some African men from the continent treat AfricanCaribbean women as if they are only good for lying on they're back and believe them to be sexual deviants not requiring any respect unlike women from they're own country.

It would seem to me that AfricanCaribbean women are the most disrespected within the diaspora/world as even our sisters from the continent seem to look down on us. I think the over sexualisation thing is a throw back from colonisation and slavery and really I suppose the only way for AfricanCaribbean women to get respect is for them to respect themselves.

How? I guess through mass education public and personal.

Messed up girls means messed up women
Messed up women means messed up people
Messed up people means messed up society
ect
ect
ect.....

Thanks

O x
SHINE ON, daughter of a thousand generations, send your light fourth into this tired world...
SHINE ON, mother of a thousand dreams tend to those dreams with strength and compassion...
SHINE ON, woman of a thousand hopes, show everyone the beauty within you - the beauty that comes from knowing who you are

#25 Twang

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Posted 14 January 2008 - 09:47 PM

QUOTE (Oshun @ Jan 12 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't know that this is really the right place to put this but needed somewhere to drop an observation and pressing thought:

Discussing African couples a sistren of mine remarked on how the African couples you see are usually Africans from the continent and how its more usual to see AfricanCaribbean men in a couple with a european and not an AfricanCaribbean woman. I agreed, I think its quite clear that many AfricanCaribbean men find AfricanCaribbean women completely objectionable but I also believe some African men from the continent treat AfricanCaribbean women as if they are only good for lying on they're back and believe them to be sexual deviants not requiring any respect unlike women from they're own country.

It would seem to me that AfricanCaribbean women are the most disrespected within the diaspora/world as even our sisters from the continent seem to look down on us. I think the over sexualisation thing is a throw back from colonisation and slavery and really I suppose the only way for AfricanCaribbean women to get respect is for them to respect themselves.

How? I guess through mass education public and personal.

Messed up girls means messed up women
Messed up women means messed up people
Messed up people means messed up society
ect
ect
ect.....

Thanks

O x


Hi Sis, I’m sure you’ll pull me up if I’ve read this wrong but I think it’s more down to a clash of cultures than anything else. My take on it is that continental African women have no problem adhering to the traditional concepts of a house wife even when working. Where living in the West has granted African women from the Diaspora an independence where they can afford to be choosy and at times detest the very thought of what can be perceived as a subservient role. You also have to take into consideration the religious aspect of things which also governs and enforces the traditional morals of your continental African like those mentioned above.

In all honesty I believe most African Caribbean women (from the Diaspora) in their prime would not really be interested in a typical continental African man (refined features and all) as they are classed as passive at times boring and not really knowing the score. Remember most women start looking for husbands when they are grown and a bit wiser to the world where not knowing the score is irrelevant to starting a stable family. This is when Mr boring suddenly becomes Mr interesting but sadly for some women by this time they’ve either had children already and split from their partner or come at a time where a man is already on lockdown but feels he needs to test the waters in case the grass may be greener on the other side.

The 3 major groups are:


  • African British
  • African Caribbean
  • African Continental


On the whole all of the above prefer there own cultural groupings with African British not being first choice for any of the latter given our alleged pseudo european upbringings and perceived lack of culture. (Unless for other reasons off course) But sadly living in the west has taught us to survive independently where the foundation of our building blocks is not the family anymore but come about more as a consequence of some unplanned actions that one can choose to live with… or live without.


Peace.


#26 Oshun

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE (Twang @ Jan 14 2008, 09:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Sis, I’m sure you’ll pull me up if I’ve read this wrong but I think it’s more down to a clash of cultures than anything else. My take on it is that continental African women have no problem adhering to the traditional concepts of a house wife even when working. Where living in the West has granted African women from the Diaspora an independence where they can afford to be choosy and at times detest the very thought of what can be perceived as a subservient role. You also have to take into consideration the religious aspect of things which also governs and enforces the traditional morals of your continental African like those mentioned above.

In all honesty I believe most African Caribbean women (from the Diaspora) in their prime would not really be interested in a typical continental African man (refined features and all) as they are classed as passive at times boring and not really knowing the score. Remember most women start looking for husbands when they are grown and a bit wiser to the world where not knowing the score is irrelevant to starting a stable family. This is when Mr boring suddenly becomes Mr interesting but sadly for some women by this time they’ve either had children already and split from their partner or come at a time where a man is already on lockdown but feels he needs to test the waters in case the grass may be greener on the other side.

The 3 major groups are:


  • African British
  • African Caribbean
  • African Continental


On the whole all of the above prefer there own cultural groupings with African British not being first choice for any of the latter given our alleged pseudo european upbringings and perceived lack of culture. (Unless for other reasons off course) But sadly living in the west has taught us to survive independently where the foundation of our building blocks is not the family anymore but come about more as a consequence of some unplanned actions that one can choose to live with… or live without.


Peace.



Hey big T whaa gwaan. Yes I take into account your opinion on this matter and a fine one it is too, even if somewhat depressing, because for the "African British" as you call us then what hope do we have of finding a partner who has head on shoulders and morals intact?

And marriage wasn't really what I was talking about more the expectation of easy sex. It would seem to me (bearing in mind this is only my opinion) that men from the continent seem to see African Caribbean/ British women as being over sexed and slack for want of a better word. And what of sisters from the continent again many sisters will look on the African Caribbean/ British woman with disdain and hatred, why? That can't also be about marriage. My theory is that the history of the diasporian female and the connotations that history carries with it is what is infecting the relationships between Africans from different parts of the world.

As for the culture and religion thing I can understand what your saying but don't agree, quite frankly whenever I've met Christians for example from the continent or Christians from the Caribbean or Britain there the same bloody Christians!!
I've heard this diatribe about culture from continental Africans before and I think its bollocks! As if only Africans from the continent need to be understood. Most African couples I know (and I'm privileged to know a few) are from different cultures, as far as I understand it unless your from the same area or village in whatever country in Africa then your ways are going to be slightly different anyway. So therefore a certain level of understanding and acceptance needs to be obtained to make progress anyway doesn't it?

What I think really needs to take place is some cultural understanding amongst ourselfs. A sister of mine who went to Nigeria to get married said as far as people on the continent are concerned your white, no matter how African your sure you are they see you as white! Now this disturbs me greatly because how are we in the diaspora ever meant to claw our way back to a place of recognisable belonging?

By the way Kwarme Kwei Armahs play Statement of regret deals with this issue a little bit if you can I'd suggest you go see it its very good.
SHINE ON, daughter of a thousand generations, send your light fourth into this tired world...
SHINE ON, mother of a thousand dreams tend to those dreams with strength and compassion...
SHINE ON, woman of a thousand hopes, show everyone the beauty within you - the beauty that comes from knowing who you are

#27 Twang

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Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:45 PM

QUOTE (Oshun @ Jan 15 2008, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey big T whaa gwaan. Yes I take into account your opinion on this matter and a fine one it is too, even if somewhat depressing, because for the "African British" as you call us then what hope do we have of finding a partner who has head on shoulders and morals intact?


Yeh I’m good sis. With that being said one would have to assume that all of us men that are born in the uk are completely hopeless u can’t possibly be suggesting that can u ?!? tongue.gif But seriously first women have to analyse what is it exactly they want from a man especially if you’re not thinking long term.


QUOTE
And marriage wasn't really what I was talking about more the expectation of easy sex. It would seem to me (bearing in mind this is only my opinion) that men from the continent seem to see African Caribbean/ British women as being over sexed and slack for want of a better word. And what of sisters from the continent again many sisters will look on the African Caribbean/ British woman with disdain and hatred, why? That can't also be about marriage. My theory is that the history of the diasporian female and the connotations that history carries with it is what is infecting the relationships between Africans from different parts of the world.


You have to give me an example bcoz what ever their bogus perceptions may be once the initial approach is made it’s for the woman to let them know what on earth do u take me for it aint going down like that. Plus under what circumstances was the initial correspondence? was it in a rave with a woman whining up herself with everything on display or in a humble trouser suit on the way back from work? I know it 2 ends of the extreme but I’m sure u get my drift it’s ones first impression that counts. But with regards to the sistas I wouldn’t say hatred that’s to stronger a word but the disdain thing is definitely a 2 way mechanism perpetrated by extreme elements of ignorance on both sides.


QUOTE
As for the culture and religion thing I can understand what your saying but don't agree, quite frankly whenever I've met Christians for example from the continent or Christians from the Caribbean or Britain there the same bloody Christians!!I've heard this diatribe about culture from continental Africans before and I think its bollocks! As if only Africans from the continent need to be understood. Most African couples I know (and I'm privileged to know a few) are from different cultures, as far as I understand it unless your from the same area or village in whatever country in Africa then your ways are going to be slightly different anyway. So therefore a certain level of understanding and acceptance needs to be obtained to make progress anyway doesn't it?


Agreed! I’ve argued for the longest while that most Africans from the continent are very similar in their way of living bcoz although the nationality and tribes may differ the customs are not to dissimilar so the mentality and understanding may be easier to adjust to. Don’t get me wrong when I talk of culture I don’t mean some superior profound untouchable way of living but more the music the food and the way one chooses to live and yes there acceptance of Jesus or Mohammed as their saviours. I think at times no matter how Afrocentric we in the west may think we are we just have to get to grips with the fact that deep down we tend to do and think about things from a european perspective which can be easily detected. I mean put the shoe on the other foot check how we look down on some of our people from the continent when they try to hard to be with it? May be thats how some of them see us.


QUOTE
What I think really needs to take place is some cultural understanding amongst ourselfs. A sister of mine who went to Nigeria to get married said as far as people on the continent are concerned your white, no matter how African your sure you are they see you as white! Now this disturbs me greatly because how are we in the diaspora ever meant to claw our way back to a place of recognisable belonging?


It’s gona be a slow process trust the cultural gulf is definitely an issue and to be honest if I were to relocate I would want some of my African British crew up in there to simpily bcoz there is an understanding between us that just cannot be bridged by other African cultures and that’s coming from someone whose parents originate from there then I suppose that’s just how they feel as well. When I go to Africa I go to my people and they receive’th me not… although I think I look just like them. My 60 watt Melanin doesn’t fool them for one second and even though chocolate brown I’m still considered as a Whiteman just like your average Euro, plus I suppose it doesn’t help that I sound like one as well. But trust it’s definitely not an African/African Caribbean issue bcoz one of my bredrens who was born here and is from there also lived there for 4 years and is fluent in his mother tongue, is still having problems trying to find a continental African wife bcoz after all what I’ve told u they still just seem him as a English man with a funny accent and at times a possible meal ticket so if he cant cut it what chance have we got?!? No that I'm looking of course ph34r.gif

QUOTE
By the way Kwarme Kwei Armahs play Statement of regret deals with this issue a little bit if you can I'd suggest you go see it its very good.


If u wanna see it again link me and I’ll go with u biggrin.gif

#28 PantherWoman

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 02:23 AM

QUOTE (Oshun @ Jan 12 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It would seem to me that AfricanCaribbean women are the most disrespected within the diaspora/world as even our sisters from the continent seem to look down on us. I think the over sexualisation thing is a throw back from colonisation and slavery and really I suppose the only way for AfricanCaribbean women to get respect is for them to respect themselves.


With regard to the over-sexualisation thing, a lot of that stuff is mainly stereotypical imo, and is not actually characteristic of AC women at all, who are in a lot of cases very conservative in sexual matters, in spite of the dance moves, and all the hype. ;-) Also you gotta remember that some people see someone in a short skirt or tight-fitting trousers and jump to the conclusion that person is a prostitute! So, with AC women of whatever size and shape being (for the most part) quite body-confident and apt to show off their physiques, those who don't 'get' it will assume these women are 'loose' or sexually available to anyone who sees it and wants it. I only have to cast my mind back a few years to my own flesh-flashing, cycling short/hot pant/leggings-on-their-own wearing youth (cringe, blush, cringe) to know that this is definitely not always the case.

The problem with our image occurs when others project their idea of what they think AC women represent onto said women. Worse if they come across one or two cases that fits their preconceived notions, they will easily take that and run with it and apply their 'knowledge' to every women, of every background, in every age group in the whole entire Caribbean region. It's insulting. It's just like the assumptions some make that every unattached woman of a certain age must be desperate and gagging for it, just because they have come across a couple of low self-esteem having numbskulls who would pick up literally anyting if the alternative is being on their own for a bit.

This disrespect that others may show AC women is not something AC women should worry about or spend time busting their brains and working out strategies to try to 'remedy' imo. You can't always change others opinion of you, particularly when it is nothing you have actually done to create that opinion in the first place. A suh it go. Example, the average euro male may - because of his conditioning - see all African women (and our people in general) as sexually rampant, insatiable, available, deviant etc etc without any real evidence or personal experience whatsoever to support this view. What are we to do about that? Even taking into account any effects of colonisation and slavery, in reality I'm not convinced AC women on the whole are any more over sexualised than any other group of women. It's a myth. Just like the one about African men's genitalia...all got big dicks my arse... dry.gif

I know that outsiders who don't really know our culture and don't even have much experience of the people will maybe see a few young girls at a party bussing some risque dance moves and hear some of our slack music (and it isn't just Jamaica that makes it!), and then make generalised assumptions about the sexual behaviour of our people... but whether we are actually what they think we are - as I said, not convinced. Caribbean people are often quite religious, and even when they aren't that into the whole religion thing (having decided it is all bollocks and discarded it...) those religious beliefs that grandparents or great grandparents hold/held create attitudes within families...which then filter down and shape values and moral behaviour to a large extent, so yeah you will get promiscuity and sexual decadence - as you will worldwide, but whether this type of thing is as 'typical' as some would have you believe, I dunno.

As far as respecting themselves, just to reiterate - I am quite sure that a lot of the disrespect shown to women of AC heritage by other Africans as well as non-Africans, has very little to do with any actual lack of respect for self these women are exhibiting and more to do with the mindset of those doing the disrespecting. Therefore AC women respecting themselves (which I am totally for, and which many of us do as standard practice in any case) is no barrier against the disrespect of others, and is unlikely to change the views of ignorant, prejudiced people.

#29 Oshun

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 07:25 PM

QUOTE (Twang @ Jan 15 2008, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeh I’m good sis. With that being said one would have to assume that all of us men that are born in the uk are completely hopeless u can’t possibly be suggesting that can u ?!? tongue.gif But seriously first women have to analyse what is it exactly they want from a man especially if you’re not thinking long term.


No No, I would never be dissing my bredrins dem in blighty, we all gots to band together after all I've just yet to meet any who are solid in mind body and spirit...except your good self of course! wink.gif



QUOTE (Twang @ Jan 15 2008, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agreed! I’ve argued for the longest while that most Africans from the continent are very similar in their way of living bcoz although the nationality and tribes may differ the customs are not to dissimilar so the mentality and understanding may be easier to adjust to. Don’t get me wrong when I talk of culture I don’t mean some superior profound untouchable way of living but more the music the food and the way one chooses to live and yes there acceptance of Jesus or Mohammed as their saviours. I think at times no matter how Afrocentric we in the west may think we are we just have to get to grips with the fact that deep down we tend to do and think about things from a european perspective which can be easily detected. I mean put the shoe on the other foot check how we look down on some of our people from the continent when they try to hard to be with it? May be thats how some of them see us.


Yea I know that Euro flavoured Afrocentrism is part of our disease and alot of time our kin from yard don't understand why we would want to not be Britishified

QUOTE (Twang @ Jan 15 2008, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It’s gona be a slow process trust the cultural gulf is definitely an issue and to be honest if I were to relocate I would want some of my African British crew up in there to simpily bcoz there is an understanding between us that just cannot be bridged by other African cultures and that’s coming from someone whose parents originate from there then I suppose that’s just how they feel as well. When I go to Africa I go to my people and they receive’th me not… although I think I look just like them. My 60 watt Melanin doesn’t fool them for one second and even though chocolate brown I’m still considered as a Whiteman just like your average Euro, plus I suppose it doesn’t help that I sound like one as well. But trust it’s definitely not an African/African Caribbean issue bcoz one of my bredrens who was born here and is from there also lived there for 4 years and is fluent in his mother tongue, is still having problems trying to find a continental African wife bcoz after all what I’ve told u they still just seem him as a English man with a funny accent and at times a possible meal ticket so if he cant cut it what chance have we got?!? No that I'm looking of course ph34r.gif


Thats very depressing but I remember reading about African Americans who have gone back and have all congregated in the same place because of a commonality, an African community within an African community! I guess the smae kind of thing happens over here to a certain extent

QUOTE (Twang @ Jan 15 2008, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If u wanna see it again link me and I’ll go with u biggrin.gif


Thanks for the offer sweets but I don't want to see it again but I think Voo would like to see it or maybe Panther Woman would like to go?

PW what ya sayin?

Edited by Oshun, 23 January 2008 - 07:26 PM.

SHINE ON, daughter of a thousand generations, send your light fourth into this tired world...
SHINE ON, mother of a thousand dreams tend to those dreams with strength and compassion...
SHINE ON, woman of a thousand hopes, show everyone the beauty within you - the beauty that comes from knowing who you are

#30 Oshun

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Posted 23 January 2008 - 07:44 PM

QUOTE (PantherWoman @ Jan 19 2008, 02:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With regard to the over-sexualisation thing, a lot of that stuff is mainly stereotypical imo, and is not actually characteristic of AC women at all, who are in a lot of cases very conservative in sexual matters, in spite of the dance moves, and all the hype. ;-) Also you gotta remember that some people see someone in a short skirt or tight-fitting trousers and jump to the conclusion that person is a prostitute! So, with AC women of whatever size and shape being (for the most part) quite body-confident and apt to show off their physiques, those who don't 'get' it will assume these women are 'loose' or sexually available to anyone who sees it and wants it. I only have to cast my mind back a few years to my own flesh-flashing, cycling short/hot pant/leggings-on-their-own wearing youth (cringe, blush, cringe) to know that this is definitely not always the case.


Yes I agree with you about the stereotype thing. Hee hee, I'm hearing you on the cycling shorts bidniz rolleyes.gif


QUOTE (PantherWoman)
The problem with our image occurs when others project their idea of what they think AC women represent onto said women. Worse if they come across one or two cases that fits their preconceived notions, they will easily take that and run with it and apply their 'knowledge' to every women, of every background, in every age group in the whole entire Caribbean region. It's insulting. It's just like the assumptions some make that every unattached woman of a certain age must be desperate and gagging for it, just because they have come across a couple of low self-esteem having numbskulls who would pick up literally anyting if the alternative is being on their own for a bit.


Yes and this is what I'm talking about the perceptions of what they think women of AC heritage are all about. I honestly believe its a misconceived europeanised historical reference issue i.e over sexualised African female and perpetuated by the attention seeking batty riding, dutty whining crowd. But can we really call women with low self esteem numbskulls? unsure.gif

QUOTE (PantherWoman)
This disrespect that others may show AC women is not something AC women should worry about or spend time busting their brains and working out strategies to try to 'remedy' imo. You can't always change others opinion of you, particularly when it is nothing you have actually done to create that opinion in the first place. A suh it go. Example, the average euro male may - because of his conditioning - see all African women (and our people in general) as sexually rampant, insatiable, available, deviant etc etc without any real evidence or personal experience whatsoever to support this view. What are we to do about that? Even taking into account any effects of colonisation and slavery, in reality I'm not convinced AC women on the whole are any more over sexualised than any other group of women. It's a myth.


Your right there isn't really anything we can do about it except put folk straight when we come up against the bs I guess I'm just astounded at how the Euro mindset/ opinion can infect our kin on the continenet when if anything they should know better

QUOTE (PantherWoman)
Just like the one about African men's genitalia...all got big dicks my arse... dry.gif


LOL laugh.gif


QUOTE (PantherWoman)
I know that outsiders who don't really know our culture and don't even have much experience of the people will maybe see a few young girls at a party bussing some risque dance moves and hear some of our slack music (and it isn't just Jamaica that makes it!), and then make generalised assumptions about the sexual behaviour of our people... but whether we are actually what they think we are - as I said, not convinced. Caribbean people are often quite religious, and even when they aren't that into the whole religion thing (having decided it is all bollocks and discarded it...) those religious beliefs that grandparents or great grandparents hold/held create attitudes within families...which then filter down and shape values and moral behaviour to a large extent, so yeah you will get promiscuity and sexual decadence - as you will worldwide, but whether this type of thing is as 'typical' as some would have you believe, I dunno.

As far as respecting themselves, just to reiterate - I am quite sure that a lot of the disrespect shown to women of AC heritage by other Africans as well as non-Africans, has very little to do with any actual lack of respect for self these women are exhibiting and more to do with the mindset of those doing the disrespecting. Therefore AC women respecting themselves (which I am totally for, and which many of us do as standard practice in any case) is no barrier against the disrespect of others, and is unlikely to change the views of ignorant, prejudiced people.


Ok I agree with that, maybe its just my misfortune to have met many Africans from the continent male and female who seem to be the ones with the ignorance and prejudice. The same battle you fight with Euro shouldn't have to be the same battle you fight with kin from the continent surely?

Edited by Oshun, 23 January 2008 - 07:45 PM.

SHINE ON, daughter of a thousand generations, send your light fourth into this tired world...
SHINE ON, mother of a thousand dreams tend to those dreams with strength and compassion...
SHINE ON, woman of a thousand hopes, show everyone the beauty within you - the beauty that comes from knowing who you are

#31 PantherWoman

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Oshun @ Jan 23 2008, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes I agree with you about the stereotype thing. Hee hee, I'm hearing you on the cycling shorts bidniz rolleyes.gif


Remember the cycling short all-in-one things?? I blame Salt 'n' Pepa. lol

QUOTE
Yes and this is what I'm talking about the perceptions of what they think women of AC heritage are all about. I honestly believe its a misconceived europeanised historical reference issue i.e over sexualised African female and perpetuated by the attention seeking batty riding, dutty whining crowd. But can we really call women with low self esteem numbskulls? unsure.gif


Well I'm all about people attempting to recognise and address their own issues. You aren't a numbskull if you have low self-esteem, but you are if you go thru life and do nothing to try to raise it. It might not be easy but it's important, especially if you aim to bring children into the world, what can you teach them about loving themselves if you don't even value yourself? Like most things worth having, raising self-esteem might involve some work but that should not deter any woman (who is not a numbskull) from trying. Some of dem need to read some Iyanla V. to raatid. I've come across quite a few spoilt men in my time who have encountered too many of these types and then just don't know what to do when confronted with a woman who actually doesn't have these "I am completely worthless without male validation and will put up with any old foolishness" complexes.

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Your right there isn't really anything we can do about it except put folk straight when we come up against the bs I guess I'm just astounded at how the Euro mindset/ opinion can infect our kin on the continenet when if anything they should know better


Put dem straight yes! We may see all Africans as our kin, but it don't make no difference if they don't feel the same. Just because someone looks like you don't mean they think like you. African people (all of us) are quite good at soaking up euro opinions and ways to the point where it is quite sickening.


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LOL laugh.gif


You know I'm talking the truth! From straw polls done over the years, I have yet to meet any African woman without either direct experience, or knowledge of brothas with small tings. Even if you do not know (in the biblical sense wink.gif )a man lacking in length and/or girth in the trouser region, you will deffo know OF some men thru talking with other women and discussing experiences. From the research I have done I don't even think little ones are that uncommon. I don't have anything against little dicked men btw, just making the point that not every African man has a big one despite popular opinion.

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Ok I agree with that, maybe its just my misfortune to have met many Africans from the continent male and female who seem to be the ones with the ignorance and prejudice. The same battle you fight with Euro shouldn't have to be the same battle you fight with kin from the continent surely?


well yeah basically. Because unfortunately some Africans from the continent are just as brainwashed and anti-African as some Africans in the diaspora are in many regards.

The same prejudices that euros have against Africans is the same prejudices some Africans have against other Africans, as evidenced by the numbers of African males who simply do not value African women...period, whether we be from continent or diaspora.

Edited by PantherWoman, 30 January 2008 - 05:22 PM.


#32 Diasporan Dawta

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:05 AM

Interesting discussion.

In my humble opinion, feminism and male chauviinism are just two different sides of the same coin. I think that they are equally destructive.

Maybe balance-ism should be embraced more than the previously mentioned - isms.

#33 Black Lion

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:28 PM

Intresting, would like to add that its obvious that African women need to redefine Feminism and take it away from the backwardising ideas of the West. While we can't keep looking at the past our socieities have for thousands of years far outstipped others when it comes to social harmony basing it off of cultural/religious ideals in place of INDUSTRIALIZED ones. Big word right there. In my view western feminism has done much to strip households of a parent who would otherwise look after the children, for industrial reasons, to the point where both parents now need to work in order to maintain house and home, the idea of a nanny state (catch the pun?) then creeps in to replace said parent and as far as balance goes much in turn needs to be addressed conserning mens rights in the face of rights granted to women. Courts and fatherhood for example... Paternity leave anyone? I kid thee not. Balance works both ways as the insurance companies in the EU cashed in on last year.

The shift in general comes from a change in the rules, whereas the idea was that the man would walk down the street, spear in hand ready to give his life for his family that idea has long passed in turn changing to an urban one where the man would work, at times grafting to serve his household again changing to a time where technological advance means that much of the graft and work is mechanic work/"protection" becomes easier if not sedentary in places thus changing the unwritten contract between the sexes leading to women rightfully demanding it be rewritten. But still, its not a comparison to employ the ideas of others when those ideas are born of a backward, destructive and ignoranct society those ideas can only be redefined to suit other cultures or run the risk of poisoning relations through misunderstanding and wrongful application which sadly, many sisters tend to take to in their strive for independance... much by way of African Feminism needs to be done for example to resolve issues of self hatred alongside ideas of social empowerment, because power without respect does nothing for no one.

#34 stellaweis

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:45 PM

Feminism is anti African



Feminism is a Eurocentric concept rooted in an out of balance european society. In Africa there was no need for this destructive concept, as African women and men harmonized into the society; each respectful of their different roles. A woman saw nothing inferior in cooking, the act of caring for her man gave her pleasure and the act of protecting a woman gave a man pleasure. We need to remember that our anti-polygamy mindset and our entire value system were given to us by the european when they destroyed our civilizations. We have their culture and have made our own taboo. Do you think for example they could be an Africa without polygamy?



But a westernize look at Polygamy for example makes it seem unbalance and unfair. To each his own but it is really only another system which is older than monogamy and has been more successful in the history of humanity. Not saying do it or don't do it (and most men say its wrong and then cheat?—go figure which is worst). Just that we recognize that our taboos were given to us by our conquer and "civilizer" and the things which they didn't do became our new taboos (nothing to do with us all to do with their taste and take on the world). Yet homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted in African-America. We have drifted so far it is impossible to measure.


We have become lost to ourselves seeking to be something and someone that we are not.


Femanism is so often confused with womens rights, they are so not the same thing. The rights of women are informed by the culture (washed by Justice and truth) feminism is just a perversion of nature. Imagine a woman leaving a child with a man to bottle feed while she goes to work—that is feminism. or chasing a career and having a child at 40!!! femanism actually injurs the natural rights of a woman. It denies them the most beautiful gifts sent from the creator.


When a man and a woman respect each other in an African way the woman has no need to react and find anti-african philosophies.


Smacks of total male chauvanism. Which women in this time will accept her partner having a 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th or Nth mate? Its abhorrent. If my bf ever cheated on me it'd be over. Why do you hold on to the negative aspects of African culture and not celebrate the diversity and creativity of African people?

Feminism empowered us and gave us a chance. Only a complete pig would want to shackle us to the sink.

#35 Toyin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:53 PM

Smacks of total male chauvanism. Which women in this time will accept her partner having a 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th or Nth mate? Its abhorrent. If my bf ever cheated on me it'd be over.

Its important to recognise that women are not all the same. Likewise the same of men. Thankfully.

There are many who view women (and increasingly men) who have had multiple partners before settling down as loose, immoral, untrustworthy, not good girlfriend/boyfriend material. This thinking neglects to consider that as people age, they change, as they develop as a result of their enviroment, culture and experiences, their sexual habits amongst many other things change.

http://www.telegraph...others-did.html
http://www.belfastte...d-16152412.html

Why do you hold on to the negative aspects of African culture and not celebrate the diversity and creativity of African people?

Polygamy is not a negative aspect of African culture, its one aspect of it and a very small part of the very diversity you are calling for us to celebrate.

Feminism empowered us and gave us a chance. Only a complete pig would want to shackle us to the sink.


Feminism has not empowered African women. That is one of the reasons why the MDG's still exist.

Whilst men are the main culprits in maintaining gender inequality, it is also the inactivity of other women unwilling to give up or share their privileges that deny them the chance of true gender security,

http://www.un.org/af...t-african-women

#36 stellaweis

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:22 AM

I must protest. In so far as our base femininity goes - and indeed our collective opposition to the chauvanistic male norms that dominate global society- we women are all the same. Like many non western cultures - African cultures tend to me male dominated more so then others. It is wrong to practice polygamy in this day and age. It is a recipe for sexual disease and trouble.

Feminism has empowered all of us. It makes us count - and the women in Africa need more feminism, not less. There is much good about Africa, but please do not be unwilling to call out the bad. Female genital mutilation, body mutilations like lip plates, setting bridal 'prices' expressed in cows et al. That is backward and counter productive and no decent woman of good stock will accept that.

#37 Toyin

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

I must protest. In so far as our base femininity goes - and indeed our collective opposition to the chauvanistic male norms that dominate global society- we women are all the same.


I think on this we will have to disagree. I know of too many African women who feel betrayed by european women who see feminism as their private domain. The sisterhood only extends so far. You may want to read some bell hooks who deals with this phenomenon excellently. Hence the reason for blogs like http://blackfeminists.org/

Like many non western cultures - African cultures tend to me male dominated more so then others. It is wrong to practice polygamy in this day and age. It is a recipe for sexual disease and trouble.


It is no more 'wrong' to practice polygamy with consenting adults than it is for people to have open relationships in monogamous societies. You can say its not desirable TO YOU, or its not liked BY YOU, but its not wrong. I mean, I consider the behaviour promoted in tv programmes like Sex in the City as repellent and morally disgusting but the series was a huge success amongst european women and regarded as many as a new recipe for a sexual revolution. Let not even mention the extraordinary rates of STD's in the US and UK compared to the rest of the world.

There is much good about Africa, but please do not be unwilling to call out the bad. Female genital mutilation, body mutilations like lip plates, setting bridal 'prices' expressed in cows et al. That is backward and counter productive...


No one is pretending that female circumcision is a good practice. Thankfully it is being phased out both from grass roots up and progressive politicians who understand cultural sensitivities.

Did you say body mutilations like lip plates????? Surely you jest. I may not find them attractive but that does not mean they are wrong or mutilations. If you want to talk about mutilations perhaps its more prudent to focus on people like Joan Rivers or the millions of westerners who pay for body mutilation operations to have breast enlargements, nose reconstructions, liposuction procedures, genitalia piercings, the list goes on and on.

Surely wasting so much time and money on these kind of mutilations when there are so many homeless people, starving people, uneducated people, people without access to water, medical resources, education, surely the billions wasted on things like fake tanning and botoxes is truly backward uncivilised behaviour?

... no decent woman of good stock will accept that.


What do you mean when you write a "decent woman of good stock"? How do you define this?

#38 stellaweis

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:32 AM

Ok - to answer your questions.

I oppose gross body work here too. I mean 1 or 2 piercings is one thing, but folks who are tattooeed all over look gross. Frankly, lip plates look like an abomination- totally distorting the face. I am hardly a fan of open relationships.

Decent and of good stock means you are someone of standing with social grace. I mean it is one thing to convince some welfare using, down trodden ghetto dweller of something, but that doesnt pass in prosperous, morally upstanding communities. Strong women who have opportunities and education would never accept such barbaric practices. I'm sorry Toyin, but as a woman I feel I can understand the degredation imposed on those branded with lip plates or tribal markings far better then any man could.




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