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Operation Trident: Mark Duggan Shot Dead By Police


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#1 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 11:52 PM

Meet 29-year-old father-of-four, Mark Duggan ...

Posted Image


... on Thursday 4 August 2011, just after 6.15pm, he was shot dead outside Tottenham Hale Station in Ferry Lane, North London, with a Heckler & Koch MP5 sub-machine gun by a police officer from the Metropolitan Police's specialist firearms team, CO19 in Ferry Lane, in a pre-planned operation as part of Operation Trident.
According to the Evening Standard (5 August 2011):

"... a 20-year-old witness, who works nearby but did not want to be named, said: "I was coming home from work when I saw it all happening in front of my eyes.

"I came around the corner and saw about six unmarked police cars cornering a people carrier near a bus stop.

"I heard the police shout something like 'Don't move' and I saw them drag the driver out of the car. I don't know if they dragged the other guy out in the passenger seat. He was the one who got shot - the passenger.

"About three or four police officers had both men pinned on the ground at gunpoint. They were really big guns and then I heard four loud shots. The police shot him on the floor."


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The Late Mark Duggan, pictured with his girlfriend, Simone Wilson, who is the mother of three of his children, at the grave of their daughter in Enfield cemetery


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He was paid £121,360* p.a. of public money to describe it as "a success"

(*Source: Dispatches, Channel 4, 21 January 2008)

#2 Positive

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 08:59 AM

They EXECUTED Mark Duggan, no matter what you hear from the demonic media and police, the community of Tottenham and afar know the truth. I hope that the truth comes out..............

#3 Toyin

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 09:15 PM

There are two stories going around. First that promoted by the mail and its idiotic readers that Duggan was a "'gangsta' gunman killed in shoot-out with police"

Source: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1UNa8glrR

The second;

The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports:


The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers.

It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died.

The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet.

These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object.

The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police.

Source: http://www.guardian....n-live#block-44


I note our community seems divided on this issue. If hes a gunman goes one theory then good riddance. I can sympathise but do not support this stance although I do want those gunmen causing havoc and terrorising our community off the streets.

The other theory suggests that if he was executed despite not offering armed resistance, was brutalised by the police when he posed no threat to them, executed in broad daylight simply because he was suspected of carrying a gun then this is not justice.

On that point I agree, and if the police who are armed with lethal dum dum bullets are adopting a shoot the African first, launch a whitewashing IPCC investigation afterwards then I am very concerned.

Remember, whilst the climate is hot, we cannot trust the media or the police to report the whole Truth.

#4 BrixtonBabe

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 08:06 AM

I cannot believe that anyone would be irresponsible enough to take their children to spectate these riots, no doubt if they had been injured you would be blaming the police and claiming financial compensation!

These yobs aren't on any kind of moral crusade, they are taking full advantage of the situation to loot shops and grab as much stuff as possible, most of them don't know who Duggan is.

Duggan was certainly not the clean cut family man that some are trying to portray him as.

I've got family in that area of London and Duggan and the Star Gang were very well known and not in a positive way I might add.

The police are now so terrified of being called racist - you don't honestly think they up and killed him with no reason or provocation?

As you yourself said, the majority of these people are Africans (none of whom have the guts to leave their faces uncovered, but then again they're robbing not protesting so that's not surprising)

Makes you proud, eh?

#5 Toyin

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 09:12 AM

@BrixtonBabe

I'm not going to get into a childish spat with you as it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

The majority of young people in HACKNEY who are observing are African but many of those firebombing, smashing shops and looting alcohol from stores in HACKNEY are european. The police are stopping most of the INNOCENT Africans (which i understand but dont agree with) whilst the true hardcore minority which is a multi-ethnic, multi generational, mixed gender cohort are getting away scott free. Don't believe me? I have photographic evidence.

The majority of people do NOT have their faces covered because the majority are not involved in criminality, it is a minority that are covering their faces and out of that minority its a minority that are acting with thuggery. These are the people the police should be arresting but they are too afraid.

You see people like you can defend the police when it is not you and your sons that face daily harrassment on the streets, you can pretend that racism has no place in their tactics when i know and experience the aggressive behaviour first hand every week.

In fact just last week I had to intervene when a brotha was handcuffed in public for for cycling through a red light. When he started to feel distressed and humiliated and people gathered around to support him the police called back up and he was arrested.



Until people like you are prepared to stand up and challenge the system when it fcuks us up, how dare you pontificate about the irresponsibility of those betrayed by spineless commentators who have left them at the mercy of the state.

This is not about mindless criminality, its deeper than that, why else do you think it has spread nationwide?

With regards to your flippant comments about Mark Duggan, I will respond as i did with the Smiley Culture case. If our bro Mark was involved in criminality then he should have been arrested, prosecuted and if involved in gun crime - IF - then locked up. But that is a discussion that should be held AFTER we identify the reasons behind his death. Show some common decency and allow the family and friends space to grieve before trying to piss on his reputation with info fuelled by tabloid hacks.

Im not saying hes was an angel, I can honestly say I dont know, but I am saying the rule of law only works when EVERYBODY follows due process, not just those without guns.

Grow up.

#6 BrixtonBabe

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 04:26 PM

@BrixtonBabe

I'm not going to get into a childish spat with you as it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

The majority of young people in HACKNEY who are observing are African but many of those firebombing, smashing shops and looting alcohol from stores in HACKNEY are european. The police are stopping most of the INNOCENT Africans (which i understand but dont agree with) whilst the true hardcore minority which is a multi-ethnic, multi generational, mixed gender cohort are getting away scott free. Don't believe me? I have photographic evidence.

The majority of people do NOT have their faces covered because the majority are not involved in criminality, it is a minority that are covering their faces and out of that minority its a minority that are acting with thuggery. These are the people the police should be arresting but they are too afraid.

You see people like you can defend the police when it is not you and your sons that face daily harrassment on the streets, you can pretend that racism has no place in their tactics when i know and experience the aggressive behaviour first hand every week.

In fact just last week I had to intervene when a brotha was handcuffed in public for for cycling through a red light. When he started to feel distressed and humiliated and people gathered around to support him the police called back up and he was arrested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMSndiDK64c&feature=channel_video_title

Until people like you are prepared to stand up and challenge the system when it fcuks us up, how dare you pontificate about the irresponsibility of those betrayed by spineless commentators who have left them at the mercy of the state.

This is not about mindless criminality, its deeper than that, why else do you think it has spread nationwide?

With regards to your flippant comments about Mark Duggan, I will respond as i did with the Smiley Culture case. If our bro Mark was involved in criminality then he should have been arrested, prosecuted and if involved in gun crime - IF - then locked up. But that is a discussion that should be held AFTER we identify the reasons behind his death. Show some common decency and allow the family and friends space to grieve before trying to piss on his reputation with info fuelled by tabloid hacks.

Im not saying hes was an angel, I can honestly say I dont know, but I am saying the rule of law only works when EVERYBODY follows due process, not just those without guns.

Grow up.


You need to face facts.

Most people looting those shops in North London are Africans.

The clip you've posted - I actually thought the police handled it very well, I would have told you to mind your own business.
The guy is swearing constantly and very aggressive, he also looks to be under the influence of some kind of substance. He also doesn't explain the different names...

The girl doesn't help... "I can see you're racist by your face, he's racist, innit" and accusing the police of taking the guy to a police station to "rough him up innit"

Your "brotha" (why do people like you persist in using this "black speak" especially at your age?)was feeling distressed at being stopped for cycling through a red light? Why? Does he not know that it's dangerous and causing risk of injury or accident to other road users? Or was he carrying something he didn't want the police to find.

I have no worries about the police - because I don't break the law or engage in any activity that isn't legal.

It's simple really.

Instead of constantly whingeing about the so-called victimisation faced daily, why not go back to Africa, if it's so wonderful there?

I've just come back from Central Africa. It's not wonderful, it's a sh*t hole and run by a corrupt government.

The UK seems like paradise in comparison.

#7 Toyin

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 05:30 PM

@ BrixtonBabe

You need to face facts.

Most people looting those shops in North London are Africans.

sigh...

Lets be clear here most of the people on the streets in the area of London we are discussing are African, therefore therefore it doesn't take any kid of genius to understand that a substantive percentage looting will also be the same. However the number of non-Africans represented in the looting if we look at it from a statistical percentage is huge, why? Could it be they are simply being opportunistic or worse yet, agent provocateurs?

Just because you thought the police handed it well doesnt mean it was handled well. Perhaps youll have more understanding if one one day you are handcuffed and humiliated in public for doing something as menial as jaywalking. The brotahs language is agressive because his liberty has been denied for the sin of doing a boris johnson. Or perhaps its ok for londons mayor to break the rules and "risk of injury or accident to other road users" by jumping several red lights without facing arrest. Only I dont remember reading a post from you express outrage on regarding his heinous criminal act when that occured.

I could go on about it not being an arrestable offnce, no need to provide identity, handcuffs heavy handed but i suspect the notion of due process and rule of law would be lost on you. :rolleyes:

what is "black speak"?

Since when is the word brotha exclusively "black speak?" with limited usage determined by age?

Are you on something? You're not helping with the racist undertones to your post and seemed kinda hyped up and aggressive today. Are all the bad little children on the streets making you scared?

Are you really an African as you marked in your profile or some kind of untrustworthy agent provocateur who must get in everybody elses business because you won life is so dreary and meaningless?

ps "Granada", you kniow, the place where you're supposed to be from is actually spelt Grenada .

Why not go back to Africa.

Oh my gosh, have never heard that one before. Hold on, i do go back to Africa and the Caribbean regularly, whats the point you're trying to make, that if i am a victimised in Britain then it is I who should leave for loving caring people like you who "don't break the law or engage in any activity that isn't legal." Do you have friends who are 'black' too?


I've just come back from Central Africa. It's not wonderful, it's a sh*t hole and run by a corrupt government.

The UK seems like paradise in comparison.

Er ditto... I've just come back from a walk around London. It's not wonderful, it's a sh*t hole and run by a corrupt government.

I cant wait to get home which is a paradise in comparison.

Anything else love?

I only ask because this thread is about Mark Duggan, if you're going to go off topic or carry on like a pompous twit then why not go join twitter instead where im sure you'll be more than welcome to share your own unique brand of banal musings upon the world.

:popcorn:

#8 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 11:02 PM

... I only ask because this thread is about Mark Duggan, if you're going to go off topic or carry on like a pompous twit then why not go join twitter instead where im sure you'll be more than welcome to share your own unique brand of banal musings upon the world.

:popcorn:

This thread is indeed about the shooting of Mark Duggan as part of Operation Trident.

However, it is perfectly understandable why some people are desperate to divert attention from the actual subject matter:

Mark Duggan did not shoot at police, says IPCC: IPCC releases initial findings of ballistics tests in police shooting of Mark Duggan, whose death sparked London riots (click for what some people are desperate for you not to read)

#9 Black Lion

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:24 PM

Sorry but I have no sympathy for Duggan... he died as he lived or so it seems, he took the choice of living a life of crime, gun toting, and must have watched various films where in the end the gun man gets caught and ends up worse for wear... as was said on BNV, if he were in an African country, at home on his own soil he'd have been shot dead and that would have been that... he had a gun and likely would have used it to shoot and kill others and perhaps a few innocent bystanders to boot. Now he's dead.

If he didn't have a gun or the police are lying and claiming that he did THEN things would be different, the riots sparked as this was the wrong time for the police to have shot another brother and there was passion involved as he had a wife etc. All in all it had nothing to do with him whatsoever... media is pushing it to the forefront to make it all about some criminal, just as the french did during their riots a few years back, same type of riot, youths burning cars etc after two youngsters on the run from the police got caught in an electrical outhouse and died sparking wider sentiments but framed as being about that one incident.

#10 Positive

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 12:32 PM

Was Mark ever arrested or convicted of shooting at or killing anyone? Does innocent before proven guilty count. Can we be sure that the non police gun at the scene did belong to Mark, and if it did belong to him does that justify the police killing him even though no shots we fired. Are the police judge jury and executioner. There has been much speculation over Mark's lifestyle and where has that speculation come from? The Media, who tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth..... Reliable sources of information about Mark and his lifestyle are far more credible from those who know him such as family and friends.

#11 Toyin

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 12:40 PM

@Black Lion

Sorry but I have no sympathy for Duggan... he died as he lived or so it seems, he took the choice of living a life of crime, gun toting, and must have watched various films where in the end the gun man gets caught and ends up worse for wear... as was said on BNV, if he were in an African country, at home on his own soil he'd have been shot dead and that would have been that... he had a gun and likely would have used it to shoot and kill others and perhaps a few innocent bystanders to boot. Now he's dead.

I understand what you are saying. I too have little regard for those involved in armed criminality in our community. My position on the poison within our community that preys on us with guns, drugs and knives instead of protecting us is well known, i too want them in prison paying for their crimes.

But I do not know Mark Duggan, I dont know why he was carrying a gun, i dont know how or if he was involved in selling drugs or shooting others. However I do know i cant trust the media to tell me the whole Truth, I also know he was a son, a partner, a friend and father to others. They including us all deserve honest answers as to how he died. This like the Smiley Culture case is not about the character of the man, its about the problems that would start to happen if we continue to turn a blind eye to the continuing state abuse, persecution and murder of African people through its institutions of force, especially when hidden in custody be it in police cells, mental institutions, on the streets or in our own homes as with Smiley.

An African male who posed no threat to police officers was targeted and then executed in the streets of London. The police and media then proceeded to collude and lie about the circumstances behind his death.

This is the key point of the issue at hand. The uprisings and later on opportunist looting that took place is a separate albeit related matter. Last night on BBC question time Mark Duggans name was mention for less than 60 seconds in a programme that lasts 60 minutes. This is very relevant and dangerous for you and I, especially when you listen to the lynching mentality the majority of the mob audience had on the matter. There was no-one representing our views, no youthe representation, no political representation, no African representation (i dont count that buffoon Sentamu as one of us).

I don't know about you but I'm not feeling the judge, jury and executioner stench this entire operation has. I'm not feeling the idea that becaiuse the Uk has no death penalty that is somehow ok for Africans to continue dying in custody without even facing trial to ascertain their guilt.

All in all it had nothing to do with him whatsoever... media is pushing it to the forefront to make it all about some criminal, just as the french did during their riots a few years back, same type of riot, youths burning cars etc after two youngsters on the run from the police got caught in an electrical outhouse and died sparking wider sentiments but framed as being about that one incident.

Exactly, it was about the issues surrounding his death. Have you noticed how none of the mainstream broadcast media have mentioned the assault on the young girl by police officers at the demo or the stop and search operation at a hackney train station that triggered the daytime rebellion on monday?

By spinning this solely as an issue of 'mindless criminality' the politicians can direct the public anger onto the young people caught up in the moment and deflect all blame from themselves.

Now is the time we must stand firm on presenting the Truth as we see it, lest this period of history becomes recorded as being about nothing than some sick angry negroes seeking freeness corrupting the innocent children of England after a cop-shooting gunman was permanently taken of the streets.

Just like the way they spun it wilberforce saved us from slavery which we were doing to oursleves, this country is good at creating historical falsehoods.

#12 Black Lion

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 02:20 PM

I concede... perhaps more annoyed at the media using the death of a "criminal" as a pretext for the riots and further the stigma attached young people... the police should not have shot and killed the man, it doesn't seem as though he were asked to give himself up as would be standard police procedure.

But I do not know Mark Duggan, I dont know why he was carrying a gun, i dont know how or if he was involved in selling drugs or shooting others. However I do know i cant trust the media to tell me the whole Truth, I also know he was a son, a partner, a friend and father to others. They including us all deserve honest answers as to how he died. This like the Smiley Culture case is not about the character of the man, its about the problems that would start to happen if we continue to turn a blind eye to the continuing state abuse, persecution and murder of African people through its institutions of force, especially when hidden in custody be it in police cells, mental institutions, on the streets or in our own homes as with Smiley.

An African male who posed no threat to police officers was targeted and then executed in the streets of London. The police and media then proceeded to collude and lie about the circumstances behind his death.


I have borrowed this for my facebook page with a link back to the forum.

Thank you.

#13 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 11:17 AM

Blacknet Village's attempts to divert attention away from the topic answered here:

Elizabeth Pears: Mark Duggan: Saint or Sinner Rhetoric Detracts From Real Questions (click for more)

Also, from a friend of Mr Duggan on the day of his funeral:

Farewell my friend, Mark Duggan: At his funeral there will be grief, and anger at how the police took Mark Duggan's life. It will take a long time to heal (click for more)

And in a big surprise ...

Mark Duggan's family has 'no trust' in IPCC investigation (click for more)

Appeal to the community:

Mark Duggan shooting: Brother asks for Tottenham witnesses (click for more)

#14 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:59 PM

The latest developments for Blacknet Village to ponder ...

New questions raised over Duggan shooting: Investigators find no forensic evidence that man whose death triggered riots was holding gun

#15 MalcolmX16

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:04 PM

Stafford Scott seems like he is representing http://www.guardian....-duggan-tainted He seems to be genuinely radical a rare voice in a community that seems to have a dearth of progressive radicals.

#16 Toyin

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 08:30 PM

@MalcolmX16

Welcome to the forums.

I don't know him, but I agree with you on our brothers actions.

I remember working with a Trident advisory group in Hackney many years back before i really got started with Ligali and was politically naive but desperate to help find a way to help tackle gun crime.

Its very seductive, they massage your ego and make you feel important, offer funding for your projects, involve you in what i thought were key high level discussions, but if you're truly about helping our people you start to realise its all a scam.

Some of the officers who are in that group are hand picked because they are sincere, but they don't have the power to make change, the others involved dont even want to be there but only put up with your presence because its 'the right thing to do'.

The chair of our group was Diane Abbott and i remember having to challenge irrational 'group' decisions several times before i realised i was just wasting my time and that all my passion and spiritual energy was being diverted into PR work for the Met.

I quit.

I have never regretted that decision and am thankful for the experience. In fact I can say as a result i learned that there is only one non-African borough commander in the met that i trust, and a whole heap of officers that have confirmed my worst nightmares.

Instead of almost colluding with the police to help them target Africans (for despite all that they say, that is ultimately what they are trying to train you into doing), i was able to channel that energy into Ligali.

So Bro Stafford Scott (and John Noblemunn) did the right thing, i hope to meet him one day and shake his hand, if he hadn't stood up his name would forever have been marked in our history as the brotha who authorised the IPCC white washing of the murder of Mark Duggan, that kind of infamy is passed on generation to generation.

The backlash has already begun so we should have his back, especially if he stands firm on his priciples despite media pressure to buckle, they will be looking to discredit him now.

But there is one glaring issue that remains to be solved.

Only two out of three resigned despite being exposed to the same information, so the next big question we should be asking ourselves is who did NOT step down and more importantly why?

The watchdog added: “While it is of course disappointing that two members of the Community Reference Group have chosen to resign, we continue to work with the community and are in consultation with other community representatives to ensure that the group continues and is fit for purpose.”

http://www.hornseyjo...death_1_1137417


Who are the IPCC so confident will rubber stamp their exoneration 'investigation'?

#17 Twang

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 04:29 PM


@MalcolmX16

Welcome to the forums.

I don't know him, but I agree with you on our brothers actions.

I remember working with a Trident advisory group in Hackney many years back before i really got started with Ligali and was politically naive but desperate to help find a way to help tackle gun crime.

Its very seductive, they massage your ego and make you feel important, offer funding for your projects, involve you in what i thought were key high level discussions, but if you're truly about helping our people you start to realise its all a scam.

Some of the officers who are in that group are hand picked because they are sincere, but they don't have the power to make change, the others involved dont even want to be there but only put up with your presence because its 'the right thing to do'.

The chair of our group was Diane Abbott and i remember having to challenge irrational 'group' decisions several times before i realised i was just wasting my time and that all my passion and spiritual energy was being diverted into PR work for the Met.

I quit.

I have never regretted that decision and am thankful for the experience. In fact I can say as a result i learned that there is only one non-African borough commander in the met that i trust, and a whole heap of officers that have confirmed my worst nightmares.

Instead of almost colluding with the police to help them target Africans (for despite all that they say, that is ultimately what they are trying to train you into doing), i was able to channel that energy into Ligali.

So Bro Stafford Scott (and John Noblemunn) did the right thing, i hope to meet him one day and shake his hand, if he hadn't stood up his name would forever have been marked in our history as the brotha who authorised the IPCC white washing of the murder of Mark Duggan, that kind of infamy is passed on generation to generation.

The backlash has already begun so we should have his back, especially if he stands firm on his priciples despite media pressure to buckle, they will be looking to discredit him now.

But there is one glaring issue that remains to be solved.

Only two out of three resigned despite being exposed to the same information, so the next big question we should be asking ourselves is who did NOT step down and more importantly why?



Who are the IPCC so confident will rubber stamp their exoneration 'investigation'?




Big question but do we know if they were even of African origin ?!?

Edited by Twang, 26 November 2011 - 04:30 PM.


#18 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:06 PM

... But there is one glaring issue that remains to be solved.

Only two out of three resigned despite being exposed to the same information, so the next big question we should be asking ourselves is who did NOT step down and more importantly why?

Who are the IPCC so confident will rubber stamp their exoneration 'investigation'?


Now that two of the three Africans on the IPCC's 'Community' Reference Group - John Noblemunn, Chair of Haringay Black Independent Advisory Group and Deputy Chair of Trident Independent Advisory Group, and Stafford Scott, a 'community and race relations' consultant - have resigned, only Reverend Nims Obunge, Pastor at the Freedom's Ark Church, in Tottenham, and Chief Executive of the Peace Alliance remains from "the community" to oversee the "investigation" into the shooting of Mark Duggan.

Newcomers to the African community or those with short memories can read about Nims Obunge here: I www.ligali.org/article.php?id=1725

Newcomers to the African community or those with short memories can read about Nims Obunge here: II www.ligali.org/print/article.php?id=464

Newcomers to the African community or those with short memories can read about Nims Obunge here: III


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Metropolitan Police and UK Government asset Reverend Nims Obunge, Pastor at the Freedom's Ark Church, in Tottenham, and Chief Executive of the Peace Alliance. The same Reverend Nims Obunge who was seen by the watching millions worldwide on 27 March 2007 (and subsequently by millions more on Youtube) helping the British Security Services to force Toyin Agbetu of The Ligali Organisation out of Westminster Abbey.

I'm sure that Mr Duggan's family and the African community can have complete confidence in him.






#19 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:25 PM

From today's pre-inquest hearing ...

'No blood, no gun, no DNA relating to Mark Duggan' (click for more)

Mark Duggan's family have little confidence in police probe, court hears (click for more)

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Operation Trident ... your life in their hands?



#20 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:46 PM

A story in The Guardian newspaper about the shooting of Mark Duggan - an event that helped trigger last year's disorder in London - was misleading and inaccurate, the Press Complaints Commission has concluded.

The 'Independent' Police Complaints Commission and the Metropolitan Police "Service" (who have a long history of killing African people complained to the Press Complaints Commission that a 19 November article – headlined "Revealed: man whose shooting triggered riots was not armed; Mark Duggan investigation finds he was not carrying gun when killed in Tottenham" – breached of Clause 1 (accuracy) of the Editors' Code of Practice.

Press Complaints Commission ruling on the Guardian's Mark Duggan story - full text (click for more)

(Apologies in advance if either the 'Independent' Police Complaints Commission or the Metropolitan Police "Service" complain to Ligali about this post).




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