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Britain's First 'black' Judge Releases Controversial Book.


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#41 PantherWoman

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:18 PM

I've started reading this book and so far to me it sounds like she did get treated extremely badly. Seems she was a chronic bedwetter well into her teens and this (and her looks) were the cause of what sounds to me like some very cruel treatment by her mother and stepfather. The woman clearly hates her mother and is bitter about what she says happened to her. What strikes me though is that she names names, talks of the schools and churches she attended, addresses she lived at, and other personal details which makes me think there HAS to be people in South London (Walworth Rd/Camberwell areas) that know the family and should know if there is any truth in it.

When I've finished reading it I'm going to post up some relevant facts and we'll see what people can find out from that.

Re: R.Kelly and his jeep song. The way how some men feel about their car I'm not sure it is such an insult for some of them to liken a woman to it. I know that there are some men who love their car. Admire the look of their car so much they have photo's of it! Kill a man if he bumped into it. Feel strong, powerful and secure when they're inside it. Spend money on things for it to look better. Show off with it. Brag about it, cry over it, dream about it. Sacrifice other things in order to keep it. Worry about it. Hang onto it when it's clear it's no longer any good for them. Sometimes trade it in for something else and then regret it. Miss it, when it's out of action.

biggrin.gif

So knowing all that, I really am not sure that it is that disrespectful if a man compares a woman to his car.

Hold on, hold on! Before you all stone me for sticking up for Ro-bert the Pervert - I'd like to state that since it became clear to me what this man is... I do not buy his music. I have bought his albums in the past and I still listen to his music and enjoy it. I don't feel this is hypocrital because I still like the songs. Some of his tunes are sleazy... but good, and some are sleazy and not so good. A bit of sleaze in certain types of songs is standard, Sexual Healing, Let's Get It On? Sure we all enjoy listening to those classic tunes. Saying that, R the P doesn't even need to rely on sleaze to make a good hit single, The World's Greatest is a top tune (I love it) and not at all sleazy.

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#42 Della

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 11:21 PM

@Those Interested - You can question the woman herself in 3 weeks time as she makes a rare and unique public appearance to talk about her true life story. In An Audience with Constance Briscoe at Toynbee Hall, 28 Commercial Street, London E1. Friday 28 April. 7pm. http://www.tiemo.co.uk

#43 Ma-at Mama

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 08:53 AM

On the husband issue. Ms Briscoe's first husband and father of the two children was a solicitor. They have since divorced. Her second husband is the QC. They have been married for several years.

Abuse issue. Yes, I got the belt as a child, like many children. But having read the book, there was something particarly sadistic about what Contance's mother did as well as that of her boyfriend. I'd be quite interested to see if her mother does actually sue libel.

#44 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 09:33 AM

Thank you for your contribution.

"... On the husband issue. Ms Briscoe's first husband and father of the two children was a solicitor. They have since divorced. Her second husband is the QC. They have been married for several years ..."

This information does not appear to be consistent with the information given to the media by Ms Briscoe herself (see earlier posts).

In particular, I do not recall seeing Ms Briscoe refer to either of these white men as her "husband" - the word that appears on each occasion is "partner". The stories she has given the media also seem somewhat confusing as regards the father of her children (see earlier posts).

#45 Della

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Posted 23 April 2006 - 12:51 PM

Interesting. My understanding was that she is married, however looking at the inside of the book cover to Ugly it does describe "her partner" .... only way for us all to find out the truth. Ask the lady herself this Friday.

An Audience with Constance Briscoe at Toynbee Hall, 28 Commercial Street, London E1. Friday 28 April. 7pm. Tickets available on-line here http://www.tiemo.co.uk

#46 Ma-at Mama

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 02:38 PM

When I met her back in the mid 1990s, she was married to a solicitor. I can only go on my experience of having worked with her for several weeks.

But ultimately as Della says. If it is something that people are really desperate for some sort of clarification, then go see her on 28th. That should hopefully end the speculation.

Interesting though that many children/adults never speak out against abuse, if it is their credibility and not that of the perpetrator that will ultimately be questioned.......

#47 Twang

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 12:17 PM

Damn as if the proceeds from her book weren’t enough she’s now charging people for tickets to hear the same thing talking about juicing it for all it’s worth.

Nuff said.

#48 Miss.M

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (Twang @ Mar 2 2006, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Need we say more?

I was almost in support of her if she was genuinely abused but I think her choice of partner speaks for it’s self.


My first posting, I think there will be many regarding this topic. Does your own racism not count then?

You do not choose to love someone, it just happens ...... old Hindi saying. We are all of differing racial
backgrounds, by finding these forums to vent at the white community is no different than the BNP
running for elections.

Its closeted ... if you stand by what you say, what are your reasons? Why should she not marry someone

of another race?
Good thoughts, good words, good deeds

#49 Mogho Naaba

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:01 AM

QUOTE (Miss.M @ Feb 6 2007, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My first posting


I hope it's also your last....

#50 Miss.M

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:04 AM

It may simply be that she does not know who the father of her children is (other than the fact that he is (or they are) european.

As was posted on the Blacknet Village message board on 31 January 2006

"... the rumour is that she gained access to the legal profession back in the early 1980s with activities that would put some of African Amercia's finest "adult entertainment industry" performers to shame."

(Source: Blacknet Village, Thread - Ugly - by Constance Briscoe (Book Review Section of Village))

That may explain a lot.
[/quote]

This is the sort of vindictive atack on someone who has decided to share her ordeal with others, and rightly so. Whether she is black, white
or yellow ... far too many years of covering-up these things has created a whole generation of people who are damaged. Look at the Catholic
church and the abuse that went on in Ireland, why are you all horrified because a black person chose to speak out?

Explain to me why, given all your quotations and spurious argument, would she not know who the father of her children is? What has this
got to do with various media reports showing slightly differing reasons for the book?

Her children, are mixed race ..... and what is wrong with that? Does your own ancestry stem back as a pure blood line?

Interesting username ...... or do you ignore all the appalling things Marcus Garvey did?
Good thoughts, good words, good deeds

#51 Miss.M

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:23 AM

QUOTE (Mogho Naaba @ Feb 6 2007, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hope it's also your last....


I have a right to post .... just as you have, my views may not be yours, but my experiences are also different
to yours.

I lived with someone for 15 years, who experienced VERY similar experiences as Ms Briscoe. She managed to
triumph over it ....... he did not, and as in one of your other postings, "people end up in mental institutions
because of things like that" that is what happened to him recently.

He was the middle child of 5 ..... he was the only one singled out and abused.

I will always question, look deeper, and listen harder.

Will you?
Good thoughts, good words, good deeds

#52 Djehutis Wisdom

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:42 AM

QUOTE (Miss.M @ Feb 6 2007, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interesting username ...... or do you ignore all the appalling things Marcus Garvey did?



Please, inform us of these things. You should know not to come to an Africentric forum and slant one of the greatest Africentrics without proof over a judge and her book which the whole of her family denies and she one believes.
I was born with two ears and one mouth. One guess as to which should be used more.


#53 Djehutis Wisdom

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:56 AM

QUOTE (Miss.M @ Feb 6 2007, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a right to post .... just as you have, my views may not be yours, but my experiences are also different
to yours.

I lived with someone for 15 years, who experienced VERY similar experiences as Ms Briscoe. She managed to
triumph over it ....... he did not, and as in one of your other postings, "people end up in mental institutions
because of things like that" that is what happened to him recently.

He was the middle child of 5 ..... he was the only one singled out and abused.

I will always question, look deeper, and listen harder.

Will you?



You should understand that nobody comes out of a situation that she states she waqs in with all of the correct mental processes going on in their heads. I really doubt it was as bad as she says because otherwise she would have extreme troubles with relationships, probably wouldn't like women too much, etc. However she seems very well adjusted and that doesn't scream early child abuse at all. You friend on the other hand, well that sounds about right for a child abused person.

Now onto you first post. You need to show some respect. Before you even finish introducing yourself you wrongfully attribute the behaviours of our people to that of the BNP when you probably don't even understand what Racism is, you obviously have not looked at this forum for long because you would have known that we have made our reasons very clear as to what we say and even our resident caucasian is beginning to understand whether he agrees or not and you barged in here with a tone of rightiousness talking about your right to speak when you have already dismissed our words as close to the racist ramblings of white supremacists.

Now I am definitely willing to hear just why you are so upset with these opinions but you cannot come here and immediately attack the views of a whole people without knowing anything about them first. It extremely disrespectful and bites like hell on a forum where we wish to treat those, despite opinion, who come here as family (as long as they are African of course).

It is obvious that this topic stirrs an emotive response with you as you have dug up a thread from a very long time ago to have your say so if you would care to peacefully tell us what your qualms are and why then we would be glad to speak to you in a peaceful way and may even extend our wish to speak to you about other pertinent issues for the African community.
I was born with two ears and one mouth. One guess as to which should be used more.


#54 Miss.M

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 01:26 PM

I thank you for your viewpoint and comments, but firstly, I 'know' and understand racism and you shouldn't jump to
conclusions about my race, or indeed what I have experienced in my lifetime. I am not full caucasian.
My daughter, is mixed race and to look at my two grandaughters, absolute sweeties, look full caribbean/african.

You chose to jump on one sentence I said, and took it out of context. I did not infer that this forum is the same,
only that when I see comments regarding her choice of husband/partner because he is white, I have to ask is
this not also racism? Surely it is about an individual's choice of partner, and at the end of the day, why does it always
have to come down to being a race issue?

If previous posts are to be understood, it seems the theory goes, she has a problem with African people because
she married a caucasian, and this then leads to the belief her story is untrue?

Why do people feel so outraged and indeed feel the need to denigrate someone who has made this personal choice
to name and tell? It's an important issue, regardless of the confines of race.
It happens everywhere, to some more severe than others, I've read posts about the fact it can't just happen to one
child. Why not? Who are we to try and judge someone elses family dynamics? I have witnessed to the contrary.

If I have offended you, or anyone else, that was not my intention, what I'm trying to say is, why be hurt by someone
else's choice?

I asked several people, all of differing denominations who had read the book what they thought. 5 out of 6 felt it was
a harrowing account of someone who had conquered over immense difficulties.
They did not think "Oh, it's someone else trying to make the afro-caribbean community look bad. Far from it.

Believe it or not, this is not the caucasian community's view .... they see it as a tragic tale, end of. There was no
further analysis, just people speaking about the heartbreak they felt.
Good thoughts, good words, good deeds

#55 Djehutis Wisdom

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 02:04 PM

QUOTE
I thank you for your viewpoint and comments, but firstly, I 'know' and understand racism and you shouldn't jump to
conclusions about my race, or indeed what I have experienced in my lifetime. I am not full caucasian.
My daughter, is mixed race and to look at my two grandaughters, absolute sweeties, look full caribbean/african.
First of all, I didn't say or infer you were a caucasian. I read your profile before responding to your post and so know full well that you are of mixed heritage. I think you may have misunderstood what I had said to you. As for understanding racism I will tes you on that with some questions at the end of this post and we will see because many people do not understand it whether they believe they do or not and you are correct, I should not have jumped to conclusions and I apologise for doing so.

QUOTE
You chose to jump on one sentence I said, and took it out of context. I did not infer that this forum is the same,
only that when I see comments regarding her choice of husband/partner because he is white, I have to ask is
this not also racism? Surely it is about an individual's choice of partner, and at the end of the day, why does it always
have to come down to being a race issue?


You have to understand that talking about someones choice of partner on grounds of race is very different from starting a political campaign against all other ethnicities, wanting to deport all other ethnicities and in many cases wanting to kill all other ethnicities. To compare comments on a forum to that level of senseless hatred is uncalled for. And if you think comments made about another race is racist, then I can now question your understanding of racism. To make a comment about someone you do not know, to pre judge falls under the definition of prejudice. The make remarks like the ones you see here is prejudicial at it's worst and prejudice a mark of humanity.


QUOTE
If previous posts are to be understood, it seems the theory goes, she has a problem with African people because
she married a caucasian, and this then leads to the belief her story is untrue?
You are now making assumptions sistren. You should have asked if that is the inferrence. The problem with coming into a conversation after the fact is that you may miss the jist of people's arguement and if you do not ask what the people meant to infer you appraisal of their beliefs becomes circumstantial. Personally i believe her story is untrue because of the fact that she seems to have suffered no serious psychological trauma as a result and if you read many other cases of child abuse victims, you will find that they all have a pathology as a result. She seems a very well adjusted individual. I don't buy her story.

QUOTE
Why do people feel so outraged and indeed feel the need to denigrate someone who has made this personal choice
to name and tell? It's an important issue, regardless of the confines of race.
It happens everywhere, to some more severe than others, I've read posts about the fact it can't just happen to one
child. Why not? Who are we to try and judge someone elses family dynamics? I have witnessed to the contrary.


If someone has said that it can't just happen to one child then i agree, that is wrong but you must understand, we cannot judge another persons family dynamics but when they make aforementioned dynamics public then they forfeit the right to complain when people do judge. And sis, I understand that you have witnessed to the contrary but that doesn't mean that is the case here. We are discussing her individual experience and so must look at it through clear eyes, not ones jaded by our experiences.

QUOTE
If I have offended you, or anyone else, that was not my intention, what I'm trying to say is, why be hurt by someone
else's choice?
You would have to understand our ideological viewpoint to understand why we would be perterbed, not hurt by her choice. Understand that who a person marries has nothing to do with who you happen to fall in love with, but who you choose to associate yourself with. Chances are she hasn't been hanging around peppers and spice too much and so she would be in a mostly caucasian environment. If you are not looking anywhere else for love that is where you will find it. Understand that in a day and age where people are talking foolishness about mixed race population being the new norm, Africans are going to be wiped out as for the most part mixed race people marry caucasians, meaning the population will not be a mixed race one, it will simply be renewing the caucasian population, one that is fading by the way. I am not sure but I do not peg you as a Pan Africanist thinker or an Africentric so you would have to be around here for months before you could understand how and why we have the views we have.

My only offence was the manor in which you first appeared but I no longer feel that way at all as you have clearly explained yourself and your actions.

QUOTE
I asked several people, all of differing denominations who had read the book what they thought. 5 out of 6 felt it was
a harrowing account of someone who had conquered over immense difficulties.
They did not think "Oh, it's someone else trying to make the afro-caribbean community look bad. Far from it.


These people you asked, do you think that sample is representative of the population of Britain at all. I assure you it is not and so when you say 5/6 you have to understand that it is not 6 people that make up the population. Also you need to understand that it is the Caribbean African community who will have a unique perspective on this as they are of the same community as the author. The opinions of other ethnic groups are opinions that culturally do not resonate with the authors cultural system. So it is likely that they will see it in a different light.

QUOTE
Believe it or not, this is not the caucasian community's view .... they see it as a tragic tale, end of. There was no
further analysis, just people speaking about the heartbreak they felt.


As you will come to understand if you have future dialogue with me, I care little about the view of caucasians full stop. It is only necessary for the purpose of balance and usually has little basis in fact anyway, just in what they have been "educated" to think. I do not see her tale as a tragic tale at all, I see it as equal to the strggles that all Africans have to face in at home and abroad. There are a thousand more if not a million more tales of Africans living painful lives and hers is no different. I see it as the day to day existence of many African people. My cause is to stop that and live free. This obviously effects the wy I see her and her story and personally, I believe her family when they say it was not at all like she is saying.


As for the racism thing, I would like to put some scenarios forward to you.

If an African man was walking the street and a group of caucasians called him the n word, is this racist?

If a Bank manager (caucasian) decides he will not give loans to anyone of African descent is this racist?

If an African bank manager decides he will not give caucasians a loan after reading Malcolm X's autobiography is this racist?

If an African who is part of a Pan African movement sees many fights on the street and only defends the Africans regardless of their actions, is this racist?

If a caucasian poice officer decides to only stop African people, Is this racist?

I eagerly await your answers.
I was born with two ears and one mouth. One guess as to which should be used more.


#56 Miss.M

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 06:42 PM

As you will come to understand if you have future dialogue with me, I care little about the view of caucasians full stop. It is only necessary for the purpose of balance and usually has little basis in fact anyway, just in what they have been "educated" to think. I do not see her tale as a tragic tale at all, I see it as equal to the strggles that all Africans have to face in at home and abroad. There are a thousand more if not a million more tales of Africans living painful lives and hers is no different. I see it as the day to day existence of many African people. My cause is to stop that and live free. This obviously effects the wy I see her and her story and personally, I believe her family when they say it was not at all like she is saying.
As for the racism thing, I would like to put some scenarios forward to you.

If an African man was walking the street and a group of caucasians called him the n word, is this racist?

If a Bank manager (caucasian) decides he will not give loans to anyone of African descent is this racist?

If an African bank manager decides he will not give caucasians a loan after reading Malcolm X's autobiography is this racist?

If an African who is part of a Pan African movement sees many fights on the street and only defends the Africans regardless of their actions, is this racist?

If a caucasian poice officer decides to only stop African people, Is this racist?

I eagerly await your answers.

Good evening ....

1. I would say a group of caucasians using the n word to be derogatory and inflammatory. Indeed racist. It was used to
denigrate although the original use of the word was not used as a racist term. In this instance however, it would be.

2. Yes the bank manager would be exercising racism

3. Yes, the African bank manager is also racist, whilst we acquire knowledge from others life experiences, it does not mean
that this gives us the right to conduct ourselves in the same way. Two wrongs do not make a right.

4. This is more complex, as he is part of the Pan African movement this could be seen as a political situation. If however.
his belief systems are such that he believes fighting gains something, then I assume he feels he is within his right to
defend his fellow africans regardless. But .... this does not make it right. If he witnessed some atrocity that he has condoned
by taking no action, surely this amounts to racism?

5. Yes the policeman is obviously racist.

Back to you ......


[/quote]
Good thoughts, good words, good deeds

#57 Djehutis Wisdom

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 07:41 PM

QUOTE (Miss.M @ Feb 6 2007, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good evening ....

1. I would say a group of caucasians using the n word to be derogatory and inflammatory. Indeed racist. It was used to
denigrate although the original use of the word was not used as a racist term. In this instance however, it would be.

2. Yes the bank manager would be exercising racism

3. Yes, the African bank manager is also racist, whilst we acquire knowledge from others life experiences, it does not mean
that this gives us the right to conduct ourselves in the same way. Two wrongs do not make a right.

4. This is more complex, as he is part of the Pan African movement this could be seen as a political situation. If however.
his belief systems are such that he believes fighting gains something, then I assume he feels he is within his right to
defend his fellow africans regardless. But .... this does not make it right. If he witnessed some atrocity that he has condoned
by taking no action, surely this amounts to racism?

5. Yes the policeman is obviously racist.

Back to you ......



Here is where we differ in our opinions. By the definition you are using prejudice and racism are one in the same. Racism implies power, the power to adversely effect the lives of the whole ethnic group it is directed towards. Racism is equal to prejudice plus power.

1) If these people who attack verbally a singular African because of prejudicial beliefs this is not racist, this is prejudice. It would become racist only if this were televised and said behaviour creates a negative emotive response in the ethnic grouping it was directed towards as a whole, then it becomes racist as this person has the power to adversely effect the lives of a whole group.

2)The caucasian bank manager is racist as he has the power to adversely effect the lives of the group.

3)The African bank manager is a lot more complicated. He has the power to effect the lives of caucasians yes, however you forget that he knows that his people are being adversely effected in his field by caucasians (talked about in the PM). He decides to take the only action he believes he can and this action is therefore reactionary. It is not a racist action. He was informed about the people he was adversely effecting, it is not a prejudicial action and therefore doesn't qualify for racism. It is not a case of two wrongs trying to make a right, it is a case of the man who is being whipped, getting up, taking the whip and whipping back. It is the oppressed freeing themselves the only way they know how. The action has not got the same motivations at all as the caucasians behaviour.

4) I asked this because this is exactly how i behave. I only defend Africans. The reason being that were the situation opposite, I do not believe anyone would help me, but because the people are African and i am a pan Africanist, I do all in my power to illeviate harm from my brothers and sisters. If i leave a caucasian to harm a caucasian, I simply consider that the affairs of their people. I have much work to do as a Pan Africanist and so I do not have time to care for all other races when I and my welfare would never even cross their minds at all. And this again would not be a racist action anyway as i am not able to adversely effect their lives as a whole, I do not have that power and so at worst this could be seen as prejudice, I would prejudge the situation, simply because of grounds of ethnicity, and act accordingly but because my actions have no power, it lacks the ability to be racist.

5) yes of course he is racist because he has the power sanctioned by the state to adversely effect the lives of every African he meets however without that power he would simply be prejudice. Because the power he has, any prejudice he holds towards any ethnic group becomes racist as he has the power to adversely effect my life and all other peoples lives based upon his prejudice opinions.

Without power racism is prejudice. If you do not include power in your definition of racist, you simply discribe prejudicial actions and have no way of differentiating between the two which is why all of my examples seemed racist. I will post links to some videos that explain it in more detail later.
I was born with two ears and one mouth. One guess as to which should be used more.


#58 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 10:07 PM

"... the rumour is that she gained access to the legal profession back in the early 1980s with activities that would put some of African Amercia's finest "adult entertainment industry" performers to shame."

(Source: Blacknet Village, Thread - Ugly - by Constance Briscoe (Book Review Section of Village))

Is this true or not?

"...You do not choose to love someone, it just happens ...... old Hindi saying ..."

1. What happens to Hindi women who 'just' fall in love with African men, and how frequently does this occur?

2. What is an "honour killing"?



Who's the Daddy?


#59 Miss.M

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 10:50 PM

[quote name='MarcusGarveyLives' date='Feb 6 2007, 10:07 PM' post='27958']
"... the rumour is that she gained access to the legal profession back in the early 1980s with activities that would put some of African Amercia's finest "adult entertainment industry" performers to shame."

(Source: Blacknet Village, Thread - Ugly - by Constance Briscoe (Book Review Section of Village))

Is this true or not?

I'm trying to work out your inferrence here ..... as you are the person informing the forum of the aforementioned rumours,
how can I comment if it is true? The problem with rumour is that it is exactly that ...... rumour and conjecture.

"...You do not choose to love someone, it just happens ...... old Hindi saying ..."

1. What happens to Hindi women who 'just' fall in love with African men, and how frequently does this occur?

As I'm not a Hindu woman, that isn't an easy one to answer ... statistics show that there are only 311,000 interracial marriages
in the US ..... given that the population of the US has now hit 300 million, statistically I would hestiate the number to be
very low

2. What is an "honour killing"?

I'm sure Mr Garvey, you are well aware of what an honour killing is. If purported shame is brought onto a family because
of a woman's unsanctioned sexual behaviour, or even if the female in question is suspected or accused then she will be murdered.
This can even happen as a result of rape, ... sometimes the man is also murdered, there are also issues revolving around the
caste system.
This practise is not exclusive to Hindu's ... equally Muslim women are also murdered.

I fail to see what a simple ancient quotation about love has to do with these issues, there is, after all, good and not so good in all cultures,
surely?

Will you share your views on this?

Miss.M

Edited by Miss.M, 06 February 2007 - 11:02 PM.

Good thoughts, good words, good deeds

#60 MarcusGarveyLives

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 10:01 AM

Who's the Daddy?



If she had been a Hindu or a Muslim
then she would really have something to write about ...





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